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Post by Genghis on Apr 3, 2009 17:31:04 GMT
The above shows that it's entirely wrong that Hamilton was punished. It's the McLaren who were responsible, Hamilton should not have had his points deducted. If it had simply been a case of Lewis following McLaren instructions whilst in the car, i.e. letting Trulli through, then I would agree. However, the minute he deliberately lied (or "misled" the stewards) in the post race investigation he made himself personally responsible. There is only so far that the defence of "just following orders" can get you. In fairness to Lewis, he seems to have accepted what he did was wrong and publicly admitted that he was very uncomfortable doing what he did in the Stewards meeting. That seems to be an admission of guilt if ever I heard one. But that's not enough to deduct points - stewards shouldn't be able to change positions in the first place. And then this wouldn't have happened. The race finished: Trulli 3rd, Hamilton 4th. And that's how it should have stayed. And that's how it should be now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2009 21:33:18 GMT
But that's not enough to deduct points - stewards shouldn't be able to change positions in the first place. And then this wouldn't have happened. The race finished: Trulli 3rd, Hamilton 4th. And that's how it should have stayed. And that's how it should be now. Sorry, don't get me wrong, I am NOT defending the punishment that has been given. I have already said on this thread that the finishing order that the fans see is the finishing order that the record books should show. I was disagreeing with your claim that... "The above shows that it's entirely wrong that Hamilton was punished." It did nothing of the sort. Hamilton has admitted he deceived the stewards and he deserves punishment for that. What that punishment should be is another matter....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2009 21:42:00 GMT
But that's not enough to deduct points - stewards shouldn't be able to change positions in the first place. And then this wouldn't have happened. The race finished: Trulli 3rd, Hamilton 4th. And that's how it should have stayed. And that's how it should be now. Sorry, don't get me wrong, I am NOT defending the punishment that has been given. I have already said on this thread that the finishing order that the fans see is the finishing order that the record books should show. I was disagreeing with your claim that... "The above shows that it's entirely wrong that Hamilton was punished." It did nothing of the sort. Hamilton has admitted he deceived the stewards and he deserves punishment for that. What that punishment should be is another matter.... Genghis is having a bad day, and i'm just about to make it worse.
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Post by Genghis on Apr 3, 2009 21:44:13 GMT
But that's not enough to deduct points - stewards shouldn't be able to change positions in the first place. And then this wouldn't have happened. The race finished: Trulli 3rd, Hamilton 4th. And that's how it should have stayed. And that's how it should be now. Sorry, don't get me wrong, I am NOT defending the punishment that has been given. I have already said on this thread that the finishing order that the fans see is the finishing order that the record books should show. I was disagreeing with your claim that... "The above shows that it's entirely wrong that Hamilton was punished." It did nothing of the sort. Hamilton has admitted he deceived the stewards and he deserves punishment for that. What that punishment should be is another matter.... Henry, sorry I should have been clearer - I meant it was entirely wrong that Hamilton had had his five points taken away. If you agree that Hamilton should receive a fine (although a smaller fine than McLaren should receive) but keep his points, then we are agreed.
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Post by schumi on Apr 3, 2009 21:52:00 GMT
Sorry, don't get me wrong, I am NOT defending the punishment that has been given. I have already said on this thread that the finishing order that the fans see is the finishing order that the record books should show. I was disagreeing with your claim that... "The above shows that it's entirely wrong that Hamilton was punished." It did nothing of the sort. Hamilton has admitted he deceived the stewards and he deserves punishment for that. What that punishment should be is another matter.... Henry, sorry I should have been clearer - I meant it was entirely wrong that Hamilton had had his five points taken away. If you agree that Hamilton should receive a fine (although a smaller fine than McLaren should receive) but keep his points, then we are agreed. No, no, no, no, no. He lied to gain an advantage, simple as. The only reason he's apologised is because he was told to, to try and repair the damage he's caused himself and the team. If you believe he's entirely innocent in all this then that's very naive.
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Post by Genghis on Apr 3, 2009 21:59:33 GMT
No, no, no, no, no. He lied to gain an advantage, simple as. The only reason he's apologised is because he was told to, to try and repair the damage he's caused himself and the team. If you believe he's entirely innocent in all this then that's very naive. Schumi, you really shouldn't think the worst of people all the time. It's quite clear that Hamilton was more than honest in interviews following the race - it was only when a senior member of the McLaren team started spouting shit in the stewards' meeting, that Lewis felt it necessary to back up someone more senior than himself in the McLaren organisation. So then he told a couple of lies. But you can't deduct points for lieing, otherwise all the drivers would end up on zero points.
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Post by schumi on Apr 3, 2009 22:05:25 GMT
Schumi, you really shouldn't think the worst of people all the time. Most people give me no other option.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2009 22:08:51 GMT
No, no, no, no, no. He lied to gain an advantage, simple as. The only reason he's apologised is because he was told to, to try and repair the damage he's caused himself and the team. If you believe he's entirely innocent in all this then that's very naive. Schumi, you really shouldn't think the worst of people all the time. This is what i mean by your double standards Genghis, you defend Hamilton(who you like) even though he has lied, yet without a shread of evidence to back it up, you accuse Nicholls(who you dont like) of not caring about his international side and making no effort.
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Post by Genghis on Apr 3, 2009 22:13:06 GMT
Schumi, you really shouldn't think the worst of people all the time. This is what i mean by your double standards Genghis, you defend Hamilton(who you like) even though he has lied, yet without a shread of evidence to back it up, you accuse Nicholls(who you dont like) of not caring about his international side and making no effort. Hatcham, if Nicholls could win a few GPs and scored a maximum in the World Cup Final, he could tell all the bloody lies he wanted to as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2009 22:44:50 GMT
If you agree that Hamilton should receive a fine (although a smaller fine than McLaren should receive) but keep his points, then we are agreed. I'm not entirely sure that a fine is an acceptable penalty for someone in his position, unless it is outrageously large...and even then it's likely that the team would cover it in this situation. If a penalty really was deemed to be necessary for a driver, it has to be something they care about, such as being suspended from a race or forced to the back of the grid for the next race...something like that. Altering the results are a joke, though, and the quickest way to get people to switch off. What's the point of watching a race where the result actually means nothing and is likely to be changed a day or two later?
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Post by Genghis on Apr 4, 2009 8:08:39 GMT
Altering the results are a joke, though, and the quickest way to get people to switch off. What's the point of watching a race where the result actually means nothing and is likely to be changed a day or two later? Henry - exactly. Maybe Hamilton should have been handed a 10-slot grid penalty for this weekend instead? Although I still say it sets a dangerous prececent to penalise Hamilton for telling less than the 100% truth. F1 are habitual liars - and constantly tell fibs. Nearly every they have an accident, it's the fault of the car, not theirs. And every collision with another driver is blamed on the other guy, etc.
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