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Post by Jim Blanchard on Jul 2, 2007 10:30:14 GMT
I have never followed speedway as a team sport (even when I had a team to follow ) though it often amazes me the way the very partisan fans and how seriously it is supported as a team sport. I like all motor sports and enjoy watching them for the competition and the shear skill of the best competitors in any discipline. Just watched the recorded Cardiff GP from Saturday night and it seemed the fans really enjoy a top individual event much more so than the 'play offs' for teams. A bonus of course that we got a Brit winner but I think he was the best rider on the night but that is not the point I am making here. Given the problems with Elite teams (I have to confess I only watch on the tele) over the past few months and the generally low crowds that turn out for them (I feel embarrassed some times when the meeting is on Sky with what seems like one man and his dog attending..) is speedway gradually turning into a individual sport like MotoGP or F1? Will it still exist in say 10 years time as a team sport? Whilst, I maybe alone in not to bothered about it if did I appreciate that for most it is and will always be a team sport but maybe my posting will encourage some healthy debate. Nothing more and nothing less.
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Post by schumi on Jul 2, 2007 10:58:45 GMT
From a personal point of view I'm more excited about watching the GPs than team speedway. I've watched every GP this year, but pick and choose the Sky meetings - I think I watched Oxford earlier in the year and will watch Lakeside tonight, providing it's on, as I keep an eye on them, plus Nicki will be riding. And as I've said on other threads if the EL were to lose the big names I probably wouldn't even bother with that. For me I prefer watching riders who are in the same class rather than a GP rider demolish a reserve who trails round at the back then gets demoralised by the defeat. Maybe this is why the PL is so popular - the riders are more equally matched? I don't know.
But if we are to develop talent in this country then team speedway must, in my opinion, continue, unless we can give the youngsters a proper training school.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2007 11:31:15 GMT
Sorry guys i love team speedway . Individual things dont really match up to that for me although Saturday was something special . But given the choice between a GP or watching my beloved Glasgow Tigers i'm afraid it's a no-brainer - Tigers every time .
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Post by admin on Jul 2, 2007 11:39:25 GMT
And if the Messiah were in the GPs? I'm with paulco on this one. Individual events are a pleasant diversion, for me, but team racing's where it's at. I think the SWC is a far more compelling event than the SGP series - for me it combines both very well, since the riders ride as individuals in a team environment. Unless, of course, you're a genius and your name is Tomasz Gollob and you decide to team ride with Russian's to advance your nation against the Swedes. Gollob's team riding with Russians in 2003 remains probably the weirdest thing I've seen in speedway.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2007 11:46:09 GMT
Without wishing to go over old ground (will hopefully see you Sunday Donsking!), I'm with Paulco however good it was to watch Bomber take the victory on Saturday it is nothing to watching a Lynn rider take a victory (or even a 3rd) in a 'crunch' match (away at Sheffield last year was a great atmosphere with considerably less people than Cardiff but far more enjoyable to me)
I cant see speedway sustaining a full GP series without the league system underneath it to maintain interest throughout the year (just look at how many fans were sporting 'club' colours this weekend). Would be interesting how many fans of defunct tracks go to Cardiff for an 'annual' fix but my guess is many of the fans who attended this year would be lost to the sport as a whole if 'team' racing were to wither and die in the UK
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Post by schumi on Jul 2, 2007 11:49:00 GMT
I think the SWC is a far more compelling event than the SGP series - for me it combines both very well, since the riders ride as individuals in a team environment. I don't disagree, but I took "team" speedway to mean "club" speedway. I'm not particularly fussed with the leagues and take more of an interest in the other events.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2007 11:52:04 GMT
And if the Messiah were in the GPs? I'm with paulco on this one. Individual events are a pleasant diversion, for me, but team racing's where it's at. I think the SWC is a far more compelling event than the SGP series - for me it combines both very well, since the riders ride as individuals in a team environment. Unless, of course, you're a genius and your name is Tomasz Gollob and you decide to team ride with Russian's to advance your nation against the Swedes. Gollob's team riding with Russians in 2003 remains probably the weirdest thing I've seen in speedway. Never understood the concept of SWC, to me its the worst of both worlds not the best (although I reserve the right to totally change my mind should Lynn win the fours this Sunday : . Far better to come up with a 'pairs' type format which would at least allow for the best spectacle in speedway and the thing that separates it from other motorsports - team riding
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Post by donsking on Jul 2, 2007 11:56:08 GMT
Oh dear, one of my favourite hobby horses, and one of the fundamental things I think need to change if speedway is to move forward.................
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Post by Jim Blanchard on Jul 2, 2007 11:59:58 GMT
And if the Messiah were in the GPs? I'm with paulco on this one. Individual events are a pleasant diversion, for me, but team racing's where it's at. I think the SWC is a far more compelling event than the SGP series - for me it combines both very well, since the riders ride as individuals in a team environment. Unless, of course, you're a genius and your name is Tomasz Gollob and you decide to team ride with Russian's to advance your nation against the Swedes. Gollob's team riding with Russians in 2003 remains probably the weirdest thing I've seen in speedway. Never understood the concept of SWC, to me its the worst of both worlds not the best (although I reserve the right to totally change my mind should Lynn win the fours this Sunday : . Far better to come up with a 'pairs' type format which would at least allow for the best spectacle in speedway and the thing that separates it from other motorsports - team riding Now, is that no odd Tony. The SWC is the only team event with speedway I truly enjoy. I get all patriotic and nationalistic. I love it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2007 12:12:58 GMT
Perhaps the difference is more fundamental - both Jim and Donsking have admitted in the past to liking other motorsports whereas I and a few other 'team' advocates tend to like football, cricket etc.
Maybe speedway doesnt bridge that gap in the way it used to and appeal to all sports fans but falls between the two stools and thus only picks up the scraps left by other sports that have got their act together in recent times and become more professional in making their sport the 'must see' event. The worry is that more and more sports are becoming 'exclusive' in both their demands on their competitors and on fans, very few can spare the money or the time to 'follow' a number of sports nowadays and speedway was perhaps an 'second' sport for many fans
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2007 12:17:07 GMT
Perhaps the difference is more fundamental - both Jim and Donsking have admitted in the past to liking other motorsports whereas I and a few other 'team' advocates tend to like football, cricket etc. Maybe speedway doesnt bridge that gap in the way it used to and appeal to all sports fans but falls between the two stools and thus only picks up the scraps left by other sports that have got their act together in recent times and become more professional in making their sport the 'must see' event. The worry is that more and more sports are becoming 'exclusive' in both their demands on their competitors and on fans, very few can spare the money or the time to 'follow' a number of sports nowadays and speedway was perhaps an 'second' sport for many fans Not for speedway fans . Don't get me wrong - i love football , but again if it came down to a choice - a Rangers v Septic auld firm game or the Tigers v Moanarchs PL meeting . Another no-brainer speedway every time .
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Post by Jim Blanchard on Jul 2, 2007 12:19:44 GMT
Oh dear, one of my favourite hobby horses, and one of the fundamental things I think need to change if speedway is to move forward................. Crikey Ian, lets hear it then man. I know there is a bit more substance from you than that. Its all part of the debate about the sport after all and I know you have very strong thoughts on the subject. Can't help notice your a mod on here now Ian. (So you have a problem with the Speedway History forum then mate? ;D) Though it seems this forum does not need mods or unless you swear and your dots and the mods change it so you actually seem to swear when you do not as in female company which I generally being an old fart prefer not to. (Is that a form of introverted censorship then Sub...?)
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Post by donsking on Jul 2, 2007 12:22:15 GMT
Perhaps the difference is more fundamental - both Jim and Donsking have admitted in the past to liking other motorsports whereas I and a few other 'team' advocates tend to like football, cricket etc. Maybe speedway doesnt bridge that gap in the way it used to and appeal to all sports fans but falls between the two stools and thus only picks up the scraps left by other sports that have got their act together in recent times and become more professional in making their sport the 'must see' event. The worry is that more and more sports are becoming 'exclusive' in both their demands on their competitors and on fans, very few can spare the money or the time to 'follow' a number of sports nowadays and speedway was perhaps an 'second' sport for many fans As I'm sure you're aware Tony, I don't believe speedway has ever operated as a proper team sport, as schumi said earlier, club sport would be a better description. Just taking my local club as an example, only today Lakeside have announced a side that changes half of their original line-up and loses a crowd favourite, future prospect and club asset. Just one small example of why it's difficult for me to grasp the concept of speedway as a team sport.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2007 13:18:27 GMT
When I first started going to speedway I was definitely a team (club) man. Up the Rangers! But in those days teams generally stayed the same year after year. Of course, there were a few changes in the line-up, but the main bulk of the team remained in tact. Now, you're lucky if you get one rider staying on from one season to the next. So I agree with what donsking has said above. It is difficult to support a team and to follow your favourites when they change so rapidly. It's not like the good old days....(Well, I am 60 now you know!)
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Post by jimblanchard on Jul 2, 2007 14:16:59 GMT
When I first started going to speedway I was definitely a team (club) man. Up the Rangers! But in those days teams generally stayed the same year after year. Of course, there were a few changes in the line-up, but the main bulk of the team remained in tact. Now, you're lucky if you get one rider staying on from one season to the next. So I agree with what donsking has said above. It is difficult to support a team and to follow your favourites when they change so rapidly. It's not like the good old days....(Well, I am 60 now you know!) Know where your coming from Norman. Was talking to Peter Collins recently (I am such a name dropper... guess who phoned me last Friday- IM - I mean the six times world champion... : But Peter said that in his days the Belle Vue team those lads were basically were from Manchester. Ipswich riders came from Suffolk, etc its all got a bit f**ked up now..
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