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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2009 18:20:49 GMT
In saying that, I would rather see the back of ALL facilities and have a move to a squad system. I don't disagree, but I feel the squad systems used in Poland and Sweden are deeply misunderstood by large parts of the speedway community in this country. Generally speaking, the squad is a "back stop" and clubs have a preferred "first choice" team that they use at every opportunity. The only example of the type of system British fans seem to believe in, was when Elit Vetlanda used Jason Crump sparingly. Many of us believe squads could work over here, but i am yet to hear any reason why a guest facility should only be used for a speedway injury. |
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Post by admin on Mar 24, 2009 18:25:01 GMT
Many of us believe squads could work over here, but i am yet to hear any reason why a guest facility should only be used for a speedway injury. Well, it's not just for a speedway injury. Guests are available if a rider is away on FIM duty. But if you extend it to any illness, you end up with riders claiming they have any old ailment to avoid a trip across to Blighty. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2009 18:31:25 GMT
Many of us believe squads could work over here, but i am yet to hear any reason why a guest facility should only be used for a speedway injury. Well, it's not just for a speedway injury. Guests are available if a rider is away on FIM duty. But if you extend it to any illness, you end up with riders claiming they have any old ailment to avoid a trip across to Blighty. I understand that Sub, but why is the reason for the absence important ? surely if Reading or their supporters were unhappy when Grinning Greg failed to turn up before the Swedish GP every year it was their business to resolve, if the guest system is to exist, it can only be to make teams competitive, and whether a rider has an injury, illness, other committment or just cant be arsed what is the difference ? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2009 18:35:14 GMT
So who in your opinion are the guest rules in place for ? the team ? committed supporter ? or casual supporter ? To be honest, I haven't got a clue who they are supposed to help. They just make the sport look stupid... I don't disagree, but I feel the squad systems used in Poland and Sweden are deeply misunderstood by large parts of the speedway community in this country. Generally speaking, the squad is a "back stop" and clubs have a preferred "first choice" team that they use at every opportunity. The only example of the type of system British fans seem to believe in, was when Elit Vetlanda used Jason Crump sparingly. Yeah, fair point for the top leagues, but no reason why UK speedway can't go another way and keep the standard to a lower level while allowing some riders to select which meetings they want to race in. You do tend to find the squad systems being used more by the lower league clubs in other countries where they just draft in certain better riders for important meetings or share the heat leader berths between a few guys. |
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Post by Genghis on Mar 24, 2009 18:36:13 GMT
Many of us believe squads could work over here, but i am yet to hear any reason why a guest facility should only be used for a speedway injury. Well, it's not just for a speedway injury. Guests are available if a rider is away on FIM duty. But if you extend it to any illness, you end up with riders claiming they have any old ailment to avoid a trip across to Blighty. And that's the problem. If you're too lenient, then before you know it, riders will be missing simply because they can't be arsed to make the trip back to Britain or because they don't like the Belle Vue track, etc, etc. Also, I think there should also be a limit to the FIM events the riders are allowed to be missing for. GP rounds, World Champ qualifiers, World Cup and World U21, fair enough for all those. But not the European Under-18-and-a-half championship or whatever it's called, that's taking the bloody piss. |
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Post by admin on Mar 24, 2009 18:41:07 GMT
surely if Reading or their supporters were unhappy when Grinning Greg failed to turn up before the Swedish GP every year it was their business to resolve, if the guest system is to exist, it can only be to make teams competitive, and whether a rider has an injury, illness, other committment or just cant be arsed what is the difference ? Ah well, Greg Hancock always seemed to receive "special treatment" - he was an American, spoke English, flashed that "grin" and all was smoothed over. The "Grin" would, after all, never treat supporters with contempt, would he? It was only the dastardly East Europeans that would do that. So all his transgressions were forgotten. If anything, he was worse than the Poles. The problem is, that the provision of facilities allows clubs to back away from sorting things out. A rider doesn't turn up for spurious reasons? Who cares, as long as a facility is available. It just leads to chaos and anarchy. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2009 18:41:12 GMT
Apart from members saying they dont like guest facilities, and that riders or teams sometimes take the piss, which we all know, NOBODY can give me a reason why it matters what the absence is for.
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Post by Genghis on Mar 24, 2009 18:42:30 GMT
To be honest, I haven't got a clue who they are supposed to help. They just make the sport look stupid... They do, but unfortunately full squad systems are unrealistic - there's no way British clubs could afford them. So the odd guest is a necessary evil. But only the very odd one, when a side has two or more missing heat leaders. But there is no need for guests for second strings and reserves. In Sweden, don't they "partner" teams, couldn't something like that be brought in for second strings / reserves? So you'd have squad systems to an extent, but not for the top guys. |
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Post by Genghis on Mar 24, 2009 18:43:37 GMT
Apart from members saying they dont like guest facilities, and that riders or teams sometimes take the piss, which we all know, NOBODY can give me a reason why it matters what the absence is for. Hatcham - if you look, both Sub and myself have, it would be too open to abuse. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2009 18:44:30 GMT
Apart from members saying they dont like guest facilities, and that riders or teams sometimes take the piss, which we all know, NOBODY can give me a reason why it matters what the absence is for. Because teams would completely take the piss if you allowed guests for anyone. You can bet that Gollob, Crump, Pedersen, etc would all still be signed up over here if guests were allowed for any reason, and Leigh Adams would be racing every day of the week most weeks. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2009 18:50:59 GMT
Apart from members saying they dont like guest facilities, and that riders or teams sometimes take the piss, which we all know, NOBODY can give me a reason why it matters what the absence is for. Hatcham - if you look, both Sub and myself have, it would be too open to abuse. What and the current system is not ? what constitutes a speedway injury ? why would it be out of the question for an illness to not be an acceptable excuse ? and bottom line, if i am enticed to 'the speedways' to watch the league leaders and their unbeatable captain Leigh Adams, and it turns out he is replaced by a conference rider, i am going to feel shortchanged, i wouldn't give a fuck what the reason for his absence was. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2009 18:53:04 GMT
Apart from members saying they dont like guest facilities, and that riders or teams sometimes take the piss, which we all know, NOBODY can give me a reason why it matters what the absence is for. Because teams would completely take the piss if you allowed guests for anyone. You can bet that Gollob, Crump, Pedersen, etc would all still be signed up over here if guests were allowed for any reason, and Leigh Adams would be racing every day of the week most weeks. But you cant replace an under-performing heat leader with Gollob, Crump or Pedersen And if Adams does what is expected this season he would not be eligible to cover for anyone. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2009 18:54:50 GMT
What and the current system is not ? what constitutes a speedway injury ? why would it be out of the question for an illness to not be an acceptable excuse ? and bottom line, if i am enticed to 'the speedways' to watch the league leaders and their unbeatable captain Leigh Adams, and it turns out he is replaced by a conference rider, i am going to feel shortchanged, i wouldn't give a fuck what the reason for his absence was. Have the rules changed? I was under the impression that back in the old days illness WAS an acceptable excuse, it's just that the rider couldn't return to the team for a certain period of time after the illness, to prevent the "one day sicky" to avoid the disliked track. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2009 18:57:15 GMT
What and the current system is not ? what constitutes a speedway injury ? why would it be out of the question for an illness to not be an acceptable excuse ? and bottom line, if i am enticed to 'the speedways' to watch the league leaders and their unbeatable captain Leigh Adams, and it turns out he is replaced by a conference rider, i am going to feel shortchanged, i wouldn't give a fuck what the reason for his absence was. Have the rules changed? I was under the impression that back in the old days illness WAS an acceptable excuse, it's just that the rider couldn't return to the team for a certain period of time after the illness, to prevent the "one day sicky" to avoid the disliked track. But that merely presumes any illness is false, if any working man/woman phones in sick for a day, they are not told they must take the whole week off. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2009 18:57:35 GMT
But you cant replace an under-performing heat leader with Gollob, Crump or Pedersen I'm probably just being a bit dim here, but I don't follow your point. What I was meaning was that Crump would have signed for Belle-Vue as their number one this year and just popped in for a few matches when he felt like it, leaving them to cover him with guests for the rest of the season. Expand that out and why bother having teams sign anyone. Just let them pick 7 random riders for each match they race in... |
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