EL Play-offs

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2008 10:45:42 GMT @badge said:

Whilst I agree Brundle has struggled in the EL, how on earth is he to progress if the likes of him and Schrammy don't take the plunge and pit their wits against the big boys

The problem with Schrammy, and Johnno for that matter is that there just are not enough meetings in EL speedway for them to make a living. Schrammy is quoted as saying he would like to ride about 90( ) meetings so needs to be able to double up, unfortunately Johnno cannot do that and only has his Swedish club and Ipswich to race for. (unless he can get guest bookings of course), so I agree hatcham, perhaps the whole aspect of speedway needs to be looked at.

We seem to have a good crop of young British lads coming through and it needs to be financially viable for them to WANT to race EL, and not have to stay in the PL to make a living to be able to get the experience to make it right to the top of the sport, and to me some sort of help from the governing bodies needs to support them, and not rely on a few wealthy promoters doing it.

Back to the play off scenario, I may be wrong, but hasn't a sweetener of something like £60,000 or £90,000 been offered for the PL club should they win the play off???

Schramm has shown some improvement badge but brundle has not, the season has been a disaster for the poor lad, his confidence must be in shreads and i genuinely feel for him.

As for riders needing more meetings i agree but wacks made an interesting point about seeing the same old opponents week in week out in the elite and i totally agree, how many times can the likes of poole and coventry face each other in a season ? it becomes a total borefest, if there are to be extra meetings some format needs to be found to spice things up.

As for a potential windfall of £90,000 for a successful premier club, it sounds good in theory but how far does that stretch when they need to strengthen and bring in a nicki pedersen or greg hancock ?

[nobbyclark]

Sept 18, 2008 10:45:42 GMT @badge said:

Back to the play off scenario, I may be wrong, but hasn't a sweetener of something like £60,000 or £90,000 been offered for the PL club should they win the play off???

I seem to recall a figure of £50,000 being talked about earlier in the season - but I may be wrong.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2008 11:07:39 GMT @hatcham said:

Sept 18, 2008 10:45:42 GMT @badge said:

Whilst I agree Brundle has struggled in the EL, how on earth is he to progress if the likes of him and Schrammy don't take the plunge and pit their wits against the big boys

The problem with Schrammy, and Johnno for that matter is that there just are not enough meetings in EL speedway for them to make a living. Schrammy is quoted as saying he would like to ride about 90( ) meetings so needs to be able to double up, unfortunately Johnno cannot do that and only has his Swedish club and Ipswich to race for. (unless he can get guest bookings of course), so I agree hatcham, perhaps the whole aspect of speedway needs to be looked at.

We seem to have a good crop of young British lads coming through and it needs to be financially viable for them to WANT to race EL, and not have to stay in the PL to make a living to be able to get the experience to make it right to the top of the sport, and to me some sort of help from the governing bodies needs to support them, and not rely on a few wealthy promoters doing it.

Back to the play off scenario, I may be wrong, but hasn't a sweetener of something like £60,000 or £90,000 been offered for the PL club should they win the play off???

Schramm has shown some improvement badge but brundle has not, the season has been a disaster for the poor lad, his confidence must be in shreads and i genuinely feel for him.

As for riders needing more meetings i agree but wacks made an interesting point about seeing the same old opponents week in week out in the elite and i totally agree, how many times can the likes of poole and coventry face each other in a season ? it becomes a total borefest, if there are to be extra meetings some format needs to be found to spice things up.

As for a potential windfall of £90,000 for a successful premier club, it sounds good in theory but how far does that stretch when they need to strengthen and bring in a nicki pedersen or greg hancock ?

Well, it seems to me that the constant seeing the same clubs week in week out stems from those same PL promoters who won't or can't (financially) make the step up and have more teams in the EL. We hear that the PL is full and not issuing any more licences, well it seems to me that the likes of Somerset, KL,Sheffield and possibly Birmingham (sorry just picked those 4 at random) could move up a league, and allow the likes of Scunthorpe, Exeter and whoever wants to join the PL the chance to gain a licence. It seems bizarre to me that here we have more clubs wanting to open, and yet no help is being given to them. We all know we can't afford to lose any more clubs, and yet it seems no help is given in promoting new clubs .

I did hear from Allen Trumps' interview when he was going to buy Mildenhall, that possibly the PL will be split into 2 divisions so it seems the EL has to fend for itself with the few teams it already has, and the PL stays as it wants to, with the better clubs in the top division and the lesser clubs joining in effect the CL.

A gripe of mine is the Sky money, surely whatever the amount is that is negotiated by You Know Who , should benefit ALL speedway clubs and not just the favoured few, which then brings me back to the one or two wealthy promoters.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2008 14:00:06 GMT @badge said:

Sept 18, 2008 11:07:39 GMT @hatcham said:

Schramm has shown some improvement badge but brundle has not, the season has been a disaster for the poor lad, his confidence must be in shreads and i genuinely feel for him.

As for riders needing more meetings i agree but wacks made an interesting point about seeing the same old opponents week in week out in the elite and i totally agree, how many times can the likes of poole and coventry face each other in a season ? it becomes a total borefest, if there are to be extra meetings some format needs to be found to spice things up.

As for a potential windfall of £90,000 for a successful premier club, it sounds good in theory but how far does that stretch when they need to strengthen and bring in a nicki pedersen or greg hancock ?

Well, it seems to me that the constant seeing the same clubs week in week out stems from those same PL promoters who won't or can't (financially) make the step up and have more teams in the EL. We hear that the PL is full and not issuing any more licences, well it seems to me that the likes of Somerset, KL,Sheffield and possibly Birmingham (sorry just picked those 4 at random) could move up a league, and allow the likes of Scunthorpe, Exeter and whoever wants to join the PL the chance to gain a licence. It seems bizarre to me that here we have more clubs wanting to open, and yet no help is being given to them. We all know we can't afford to lose any more clubs, and yet it seems no help is given in promoting new clubs .

I did hear from Allen Trumps' interview when he was going to buy Mildenhall, that possibly the PL will be split into 2 divisions so it seems the EL has to fend for itself with the few teams it already has, and the PL stays as it wants to, with the better clubs in the top division and the lesser clubs joining in effect the CL.

A gripe of mine is the Sky money, surely whatever the amount is that is negotiated by You Know Who , should benefit ALL speedway clubs and not just the favoured few, which then brings me back to the one or two wealthy promoters.

So do i take it you agree with my suggestion that the stance taken by (some) premier league supporters is destroying british speedway

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2008 14:31:38 GMT @hatcham said:

Sept 18, 2008 14:00:06 GMT @badge said:

Well, it seems to me that the constant seeing the same clubs week in week out stems from those same PL promoters who won't or can't (financially) make the step up and have more teams in the EL. We hear that the PL is full and not issuing any more licences, well it seems to me that the likes of Somerset, KL,Sheffield and possibly Birmingham (sorry just picked those 4 at random) could move up a league, and allow the likes of Scunthorpe, Exeter and whoever wants to join the PL the chance to gain a licence. It seems bizarre to me that here we have more clubs wanting to open, and yet no help is being given to them. We all know we can't afford to lose any more clubs, and yet it seems no help is given in promoting new clubs .

I did hear from Allen Trumps' interview when he was going to buy Mildenhall, that possibly the PL will be split into 2 divisions so it seems the EL has to fend for itself with the few teams it already has, and the PL stays as it wants to, with the better clubs in the top division and the lesser clubs joining in effect the CL.

A gripe of mine is the Sky money, surely whatever the amount is that is negotiated by You Know Who , should benefit ALL speedway clubs and not just the favoured few, which then brings me back to the one or two wealthy promoters.

So do i take it you agree with my suggestion that the stance taken by (some) premier league supporters is destroying british speedway

Errrr yes I suppose I do , however do we mean supporters or promoters or both!!

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2008 14:41:33 GMT @badge said:

Sept 18, 2008 14:31:38 GMT @hatcham said:

So do i take it you agree with my suggestion that the stance taken by (some) premier league supporters is destroying british speedway

Errrr yes I suppose I do , however do we mean supporters or promoters or both!!

Would have to be the supporters badge, we all know that promoters are a dodgy breed but they can only get away with what they are allowed

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2008 14:00:06 GMT @badge said:

We hear that the PL is full and not issuing any more licences, well it seems to me that the likes of Somerset, KL,Sheffield and possibly Birmingham (sorry just picked those 4 at random) could move up a league, and allow the likes of Scunthorpe, Exeter and whoever wants to join the PL the chance to gain a licence. It seems bizarre to me that here we have more clubs wanting to open, and yet no help is being given to them. We all know we can't afford to lose any more clubs, and yet it seems no help is given in promoting new clubs .


.

So exactly why should any PL promoter of sound mind want to leave a well organised, self governing league to join another that is dictated to by a TV company and suffers from late fixture changes and riders not showing because of imaginary illness and fixture clashes with foreign leagues?

I can't think of one good reason, can you?

Now if you suggested that the EL put it's house in order, govern it's own events, didn't bow down before the gods that are Sky, IMG and foreign leagues, I might just begin to see where you are coming from.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2008 19:28:44 GMT @starlady said:

Sept 18, 2008 14:00:06 GMT @badge said:

We hear that the PL is full and not issuing any more licences, well it seems to me that the likes of Somerset, KL,Sheffield and possibly Birmingham (sorry just picked those 4 at random) could move up a league, and allow the likes of Scunthorpe, Exeter and whoever wants to join the PL the chance to gain a licence. It seems bizarre to me that here we have more clubs wanting to open, and yet no help is being given to them. We all know we can't afford to lose any more clubs, and yet it seems no help is given in promoting new clubs .


.

So exactly why should any PL promoter of sound mind want to leave a well organised, self governing league to join another that is dictated to by a TV company and suffers from late fixture changes and riders not showing because of imaginary illness and fixture clashes with foreign leagues?

I can't think of one good reason, can you?

Now if you suggested that the EL put it's house in order, govern it's own events, didn't bow down before the gods that are Sky, IMG and foreign leagues, I might just begin to see where you are coming from.

So are you saying that the PL is not governed by the BSPA , or that you are but the PL do their own thing???

[Deleted]

I'm saying that the PL compiles it's fixtures and, with few exceptions, they stay compiled. No TV company decides that clubs will ride on certain dates, therefore fewer riders have fixture clashes. It wasn't the PL that inaugurated the green helmet colour, nor the stupid double point for doing nothing extra dingly dangly do dah rule, nor the bloody stupid play offs to decide the league champions.

To be honest, as a lapsed fan (for reasons see above) I really don't care I have never understood why any PL team should have to go up just to underpine a failing league, and IMHO failing is what the EL is. Were it not, the PL clubs would be beating a path to it's door, wouldn't they

I was just trying to put another side to the debate .

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2008 20:34:00 GMT @starlady said:

I'm saying that the PL compiles it's fixtures and, with few exceptions, they stay compiled. No TV company decides that clubs will ride on certain dates, therefore fewer riders have fixture clashes. It wasn't the PL that inaugurated the green helmet colour, nor the stupid double point for doing nothing extra dingly dangly do dah rule, nor the bloody stupid play offs to decide the league champions.

To be honest, as a lapsed fan (for reasons see above) I really don't care I have never understood why any PL team should have to go up just to underpine a failing league, and IMHO failing is what the EL is. Were it not, the PL clubs would be beating a path to it's door, wouldn't they

I was just trying to put another side to the debate .

And good job you are SL, however I'm sure not everything in the PL is rosy, otherwise Mildy would not have had it's problems and one or two other clubs, so a complete overhaul is really needed I suspect.
And as for the bloody fixtures , the muppet who compiled those for this season needs the sack, but then I suppose the persons that employed him were OK

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2008 20:34:00 GMT @starlady said:

I'm saying that the PL compiles it's fixtures and, with few exceptions, they stay compiled. No TV company decides that clubs will ride on certain dates, therefore fewer riders have fixture clashes. It wasn't the PL that inaugurated the green helmet colour, nor the stupid double point for doing nothing extra dingly dangly do dah rule, nor the bloody stupid play offs to decide the league champions.

To be honest, as a lapsed fan (for reasons see above) I really don't care I have never understood why any PL team should have to go up just to underpine a failing league, and IMHO failing is what the EL is. Were it not, the PL clubs would be beating a path to it's door, wouldn't they

I was just trying to put another side to the debate .

Its great to hear from both sides star lady, the premier league appears to be better run but british speedway is what it is and if teams dont accept promotion the elite will eventually collapse and all the premier sides will be in the top flight by default .

I dont support any team or any league, but it baffles me how defensive some premier supporters are, i accept that some elite team supporters are dismissive of the div 2 product and i appreciate the showing of loyalty, but i will never understand anyone wanting to settle for second best.

As for your television comment, i think you over estimate their control, believe me when i say they have very little knowledge of the sport and would have no desire to push the tactical double points rule, obviously they would prefer to see a close match but if the viewing figures stack up they will be happy.
If sky have had an input into rules and regulations the most likely implication would be them wanting britain to have at least two riders in the gp's, and nicholls overdue involvement is very possibly down to them, as much as that might displease sub.

[Deleted]

There are no doubt problems with some clubs in the PL, Mildenhall & Redcar's problems have been made public.

However, it does seem a more stable & viable structure than the EL. Just thinking back from the end of the 2006 season there's been one hell of a turnover of promoters in the EL

Lakeside - Russell sold to Douglas
Belle Vue - Mole sold to Gordon/Pairman/Morton
Eastbourne - Brimson sold to Hagon
Reading - BSI sold to Legg
Coventry - Sandhu sold to Trump
Oxford - Lanney sold to Horton
Peterborough - Horton sold to Frost

5 out of the 7 changes of Promotion at these clubs were due to financial issues and another due to the previous promoter becoming disillusioned with the way the EL was being run. Only Belle Vue changed hands in circumstance that weren't really forced.

Of those 5 one has since folded, one dropped down to the PL and applications to join the PL were made from at least another 1. Just 4 clubs out of the 11 who started the 2007 EL have managed to retain the same promotion, and it's rumoured that only 2 of them make a profit.

Is it any wonder PL promoters don't feel inspired to ride at higher level which is likely to end in disaster.

The money isn't there in British speedway anymore, yet many EL promoters continue to splash it around. EL speedway can't compete financially with Poland, Sweden or Russia and until they accept that & start to cut their cloth accordingly or bite the bullet & get rid of GP stars the EL won't get anywhere near equal numbers of teams to that the PL boasts.

Personally, I can see things getting worse in the EL before they get any better.

[Deleted]

Sept 18, 2008 21:20:04 GMT @wacks said:

Personally, I can see things getting worse in the EL before they get any better.

I have no doubt your right wacks and the Elite's problems cant be laid at the premier's door, but elite/premier/conference its all a load of bollocks, it is division 1/2 and 3 whether people like it or not and what affects the elite will have an impact on the premier and then the conference.

[schumi]

Sept 18, 2008 20:34:00 GMT @starlady said:

I'm saying that the PL compiles it's fixtures and, with few exceptions, they stay compiled.

Could that be because they have so many fixtures to fit in, they daren't change them, whereas the EL have more flexibility?

Have to say, I'd prefer more variety in the EL.

[Deleted]

It certainly will Hatcham, but I'd expect to see a breakaway league formed outside of the BSPA regulations before that happens.

Would going back to grass roots speedway be so bad?

It's 4 blokes on bikes, does it matter who they are or what country they come from as long as they provide good racing & entertainment?