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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 11:48:55 GMT
General standard of riders in PL may not be as good as the EL but entertainment wise it's better VFM.
Given the choice of watching Ulli Ostergaard on a weekly basis or the likes of Chris Harris/Simon Stead etc I'd choose the dane every time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 12:55:01 GMT
Hahahahahah! Coventry to the PL!! Whoever finishes bottom of the elite will without doubt beat the premier league winners, the standard in the elite may be very poor but the premier is shocking. I'd just love to see them sweating and panicing. Esp. if the PL team got off to a flyer.... The problem with the quality of racint at EL is the gap between the reserve and heat leader. It's two races in one, the quality of 'third heat leader' is also weak. It's beautiful in the PL to see reserves beating heat leaders and etc. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 13:16:26 GMT
Whoever finishes bottom of the elite will without doubt beat the premier league winners, the standard in the elite may be very poor but the premier is shocking. I'd just love to see them sweating and panicing. Esp. if the PL team got off to a flyer.... The problem with the quality of racint at EL is the gap between the reserve and heat leader. It's two races in one, the quality of 'third heat leader' is also weak. It's beautiful in the PL to see reserves beating heat leaders and etc. Not in the PL meetings I've seen  , it's been the same as the EL, 2 high flying heat leaders, and reserves trailing at the back. (sorry, but this myth that the PL is superior to the EL annoys me somewhat I'm afraid), Fans chose which level of racing they wish to see and support their team, but the make up of the teams is so similar, OK they don't get so much money as the so called "top men" in the EL, but the likes of Tomas Topinka, Ulrich Ostergaard, Jason Bunyan etc., are far too good to be in PL racing, other than they can make more money and be a big fish in a little pool, rather than a small fish in a bigger pool. sorry just my opinion you understand ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 13:29:10 GMT
If stead and sick note return soon coventry wont lose all their away matches, and as for peterborough winning all their home fixtures, well what can i say fp ? you must have started on it early this morning ! I'll go for Coventry 32 Belle Vue 26 P boro 26 Wolves 18 Who is sick note? If you mean Robbie Kessler then he's injured and out for the season after the awful crash with Simon Stead a few weeks ago. Olly Allen? Must agree he is very accident prone, but there is only one sick note and that's Lee Richardson.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 13:40:59 GMT
So what are the possible outcomes? Well, the fight for the top four is down to five teams: Poole, Lakeside, Swindon, Ipswich and Eastbourne, although the Witches would have to have a very poor run to lose fourth place where they're currently sitting. 1..Poole.. 31..14..0..2..8..0..7..1562-1269.. 52 2..Lakeside.. 29..13..0..1..7..1..7..1407-1246.. 48 3..Swindon.. 31..12 2..2..5..0..10..1455-1382.. 41 4..Ipswich.. 28..10..0..4..4..2..8..1294-1264.. 34 5..Eastbourne.. 30..10..0..4..4..0..12..1353-1398.. 32 Fixtures remaining are: Poole:25.09.08..Ipswich v Poole Lakeside:17.09.08..Lakeside v Wolverhampton 18.09.08..Peterborough v Lakeside 19.09.08..Lakeside v Peterborough Swindon:22.09.08..Coventry v Swindon Ipswich:15.09.08..Wolverhampton v Ipswich 22.09.08..Peterborough v Ipswich 25.09.09..Ipswich v Poole 25.09.08..Ipswich v Coventry Eastbourne:20.09.08..Eastbourne v Coventry TBA..Eastbourne v Wolverhampton Whilst I am still on my high horse  , it's interesting to see which teams have only 1 meeting left to run, and all the others have several isn't it? Hmmm 2 clubs who didn't have weeks off between meetings through the summer  ...one has to wonder why I feel  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 13:47:47 GMT
Olly Allen? Must agree he is very accident prone, but there is only one sick note and that's Lee Richardson. Olly has well and truly taken rico's title over the last couple of seasons |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 13:59:32 GMT
General standard of riders in PL may not be as good as the EL but entertainment wise it's better VFM. Given the choice of watching Ulli Ostergaard on a weekly basis or the likes of Chris Harris/Simon Stead etc I'd choose the dane every time. Here is a topic for discussion (and i am only playing devils advocate) Does the stance taken (preferring div 2 to div 1) by so many premier league followers, lower the standard of british speedway ? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 14:59:37 GMT
Not in the PL meetings I've seen , it's been the same as the EL, 2 high flying heat leaders, and reserves trailing at the back. (sorry, but this myth that the PL is superior to the EL annoys me somewhat I'm afraid), Fans chose which level of racing they wish to see and support their team, but the make up of the teams is so similar, OK they don't get so much money as the so called "top men" in the EL, but the likes of Tomas Topinka, Ulrich Ostergaard, Jason Bunyan etc., are far too good to be in PL racing, other than they can make more money and be a big fish in a little pool, rather than a small fish in a bigger pool. sorry just my opinion you understand ;DOn the contary Badge, it's generally EL fans who think the level of racing in the top tier if superior to anything else. tbh you get good & bad races in both leagues, but having spent 2 seasons in the EL, one of which where we were nearly very successful, I can honestly say that I enjoy the PL more, I'm not saying it's better than the EL in general, but certainly at Reading it's been more entertaining - the majority of Racers fans seem to think the same too. As for some of the PL riders being too good for the lower tier and being a big fish in a small pond. I'm not sure that's right either. Ostergaard has been an EL rider, his EL club didn't want to use him this season so he took the job with Reading. Nobody expected the form he's shown this year where he's put nearly 2 points on his average. On current form he is good enough for a EL team spot, but after being dropped in 2007 & his services not required in 2008 I wouldn't blame him if he stuck with the PL again next season. Topinka has been there & done it & Bunyan being too good for the PL ;D You not seen too much of him recently I take it. In answer to Hatcham, imo no. Fans preferring PL to EL doesn't devalue or lower the standard of the sport. They will follow their team whatever level they are in. that's the whole idea of being a fan/supporter isn't it? If anything is lowering the standard of the sport it's some of the pikey promoters & piss taking riders involved in it. |
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Post by nobbyclark on Sept 17, 2008 15:28:00 GMT
Ostergaard has been an EL rider, his EL club didn't want to use him this season so he took the job with Reading. Nobody expected the form he's shown this year where he's put nearly 2 points on his average. On current form he is good enough for a EL team spot, but after being dropped in 2007 & his services not required in 2008 I wouldn't blame him if he stuck with the PL again next season. Disagree with you there Wackie!.. Ostergaard didn't want to be considered for the Panthers in 2008. Something to do with having a young family and Thursday night EOES commitments and getting back home to Denmark! But I agree the boy has done good this season but would IMO struggle in the EL on a 5 point average! Topinka has been there & done it & Bunyan being too good for the PL ;D You not seen too much of him recently I take it. Have to agree with you there- Bunyan was shite at Rye House earlier this season.. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 15:29:02 GMT
It's beautiful in the PL to see reserves beating heat leaders Not in the PL meetings I've seen , it's been the same as the EL, 2 high flying heat leaders, and reserves trailing at the back. (sorry, but this myth that the PL is superior to the EL annoys me somewhat I'm afraid), I suggest you choose your meetings more carefully badge Certainly Edinburgh don't have 2 high flying heatleaders but a very balanced team with just less than three points seperating riders number one and seven. It's also a myth that the PL fans think their league is far superior to the EL. I think you will find it's the EL that ram the "superiority" crap down the PL fans throats. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 15:33:05 GMT
Not in the PL meetings I've seen , it's been the same as the EL, 2 high flying heat leaders, and reserves trailing at the back. (sorry, but this myth that the PL is superior to the EL annoys me somewhat I'm afraid), Fans chose which level of racing they wish to see and support their team, but the make up of the teams is so similar, OK they don't get so much money as the so called "top men" in the EL, but the likes of Tomas Topinka, Ulrich Ostergaard, Jason Bunyan etc., are far too good to be in PL racing, other than they can make more money and be a big fish in a little pool, rather than a small fish in a bigger pool. sorry just my opinion you understand ;DOn the contary Badge, it's generally EL fans who think the level of racing in the top tier if superior to anything else. tbh you get good & bad races in both leagues, but having spent 2 seasons in the EL, one of which where we were nearly very successful, I can honestly say that I enjoy the PL more, I'm not saying it's better than the EL in general, but certainly at Reading it's been more entertaining - the majority of Racers fans seem to think the same too. As for some of the PL riders being too good for the lower tier and being a big fish in a small pond. I'm not sure that's right either. Ostergaard has been an EL rider, his EL club didn't want to use him this season so he took the job with Reading. Nobody expected the form he's shown this year where he's put nearly 2 points on his average. On current form he is good enough for a EL team spot, but after being dropped in 2007 & his services not required in 2008 I wouldn't blame him if he stuck with the PL again next season. Topinka has been there & done it & Bunyan being too good for the PL ;D You not seen too much of him recently I take it. In answer to Hatcham, imo no. Fans preferring PL to EL doesn't devalue or lower the standard of the sport. They will follow their team whatever level they are in. that's the whole idea of being a fan/supporter isn't it? If anything is lowering the standard of the sport it's some of the pikey promoters & piss taking riders involved in it. Premier league fans sure are a strange bunch, this must be the only sport where clubs and their supporters do not wish to compete at a higher level. I take on your point about always following your team, i am a lifelong Millwall supporter, was a season ticket holder for decades and have watched them at over 90 different grounds, but i have always dreamed they would be capable of performing at the top even though it has never proved to be a reality, as for the matches being better, possibly ? i cannot really comment but more excitement at a lower level in any sport is always likely because more mistakes are made,but still millions will tune in to watch a man utd arsenal 0-0 draw, yet only one man and a dog will see the 10 goal thriller between billingsgate fish market and whom ever in the conference div 5, because apart from speedway (apparently) sports fans will always want to see and be the best. Does this attitude not allow promoters the opportunity to short change punters ? and does it not encourage riders to perform at a lower standard ? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 19:50:38 GMT
I'd just love to see them sweating and panicing. Esp. if the PL team got off to a flyer.... The problem with the quality of racint at EL is the gap between the reserve and heat leader. It's two races in one, the quality of 'third heat leader' is also weak. It's beautiful in the PL to see reserves beating heat leaders and etc. Not in the PL meetings I've seen , it's been the same as the EL, 2 high flying heat leaders, and reserves trailing at the back. (sorry, but this myth that the PL is superior to the EL annoys me somewhat I'm afraid), Fans chose which level of racing they wish to see and support their team, but the make up of the teams is so similar, OK they don't get so much money as the so called "top men" in the EL, but the likes of Tomas Topinka, Ulrich Ostergaard, Jason Bunyan etc., are far too good to be in PL racing, other than they can make more money and be a big fish in a little pool, rather than a small fish in a bigger pool. sorry just my opinion you understand ;DI take you went Kings Lynn or Mildenhall or maybe Rye House by your location. I have no bone to pick here - I am simply neutral who enjoys watching the racing. My opinion maybe down to Coventry and Birmingham respectively being my nearest tracks. I'll see whether the EL can change my mind on Monday when I visit Brandon. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 21:44:41 GMT
On the contary Badge, it's generally EL fans who think the level of racing in the top tier if superior to anything else. tbh you get good & bad races in both leagues, but having spent 2 seasons in the EL, one of which where we were nearly very successful, I can honestly say that I enjoy the PL more, I'm not saying it's better than the EL in general, but certainly at Reading it's been more entertaining - the majority of Racers fans seem to think the same too. As for some of the PL riders being too good for the lower tier and being a big fish in a small pond. I'm not sure that's right either. Ostergaard has been an EL rider, his EL club didn't want to use him this season so he took the job with Reading. Nobody expected the form he's shown this year where he's put nearly 2 points on his average. On current form he is good enough for a EL team spot, but after being dropped in 2007 & his services not required in 2008 I wouldn't blame him if he stuck with the PL again next season. Topinka has been there & done it & Bunyan being too good for the PL ;D You not seen too much of him recently I take it. In answer to Hatcham, imo no. Fans preferring PL to EL doesn't devalue or lower the standard of the sport. They will follow their team whatever level they are in. that's the whole idea of being a fan/supporter isn't it? If anything is lowering the standard of the sport it's some of the pikey promoters & piss taking riders involved in it. Premier league fans sure are a strange bunch, this must be the only sport where clubs and their supporters do not wish to compete at a higher level. I take on your point about always following your team, i am a lifelong Millwall supporter, was a season ticket holder for decades and have watched them at over 90 different grounds, but i have always dreamed they would be capable of performing at the top even though it has never proved to be a reality, as for the matches being better, possibly ? i cannot really comment but more excitement at a lower level in any sport is always likely because more mistakes are made,but still millions will tune in to watch a man utd arsenal 0-0 draw, yet only one man and a dog will see the 10 goal thriller between billingsgate fish market and whom ever in the conference div 5, because apart from speedway (apparently) sports fans will always want to see and be the best. Does this attitude not allow promoters the opportunity to short change punters ? and does it not encourage riders to perform at a lower standard ? It's not a question of not wanting my club to race at the highest level. I was initially thrilled when we got brought out, given that hideous name and moved into the EL. That move almost killed the club though and I must admit I personally found the EL very repetitive and missed more home meetings in 2006 & 2007 than I have done in any season before or after. I just couldn't be arsed to watch Coventry or Ipswich or Poole again, and knew if I missed the ELA meeting, I'd still get a chance to see them again at least one more time at Smallmead that season. In the PL you generally will only see a team at home once per season - it's more of a motivation to attend because of that. Pat Bliss may be a Swindoner but she's a wise old bird & had been in the promotion business long enough to know that Reading couldn't sustain top tier Racing anymore, and so it proved. I don't think Reading as a club or it's supporters lack ambition, we just know what level the club can safely run at and that's the same for 99% of PL clubs. We stepped back to the PL this season with tbh a mediocre team who haven't performed to expectations but the crowds have been better than we were getting when we had our 'glamour' team of 2006. Why? I don't honestly know. I do think there's more continuity in the PL. We've certainly had more meetings this year where both the home & opposition line ups have been as per programme. That didn't happen very often when we were EL (and I'm not just counting Zagar & Hancocks absences). At the end of the day whether it's CL, PL or EL it's still speedway. To be honest, there's very little benefit or even none at all of striving for the top level of British Speedway. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2008 23:11:11 GMT
Premier league fans sure are a strange bunch, this must be the only sport where clubs and their supporters do not wish to compete at a higher level. I take on your point about always following your team, i am a lifelong Millwall supporter, was a season ticket holder for decades and have watched them at over 90 different grounds, but i have always dreamed they would be capable of performing at the top even though it has never proved to be a reality, as for the matches being better, possibly ? i cannot really comment but more excitement at a lower level in any sport is always likely because more mistakes are made,but still millions will tune in to watch a man utd arsenal 0-0 draw, yet only one man and a dog will see the 10 goal thriller between billingsgate fish market and whom ever in the conference div 5, because apart from speedway (apparently) sports fans will always want to see and be the best. Does this attitude not allow promoters the opportunity to short change punters ? and does it not encourage riders to perform at a lower standard ? It's not a question of not wanting my club to race at the highest level. I was initially thrilled when we got brought out, given that hideous name and moved into the EL. That move almost killed the club though and I must admit I personally found the EL very repetitive and missed more home meetings in 2006 & 2007 than I have done in any season before or after. I just couldn't be arsed to watch Coventry or Ipswich or Poole again, and knew if I missed the ELA meeting, I'd still get a chance to see them again at least one more time at Smallmead that season. In the PL you generally will only see a team at home once per season - it's more of a motivation to attend because of that. Pat Bliss may be a Swindoner but she's a wise old bird & had been in the promotion business long enough to know that Reading couldn't sustain top tier Racing anymore, and so it proved. I don't think Reading as a club or it's supporters lack ambition, we just know what level the club can safely run at and that's the same for 99% of PL clubs. We stepped back to the PL this season with tbh a mediocre team who haven't performed to expectations but the crowds have been better than we were getting when we had our 'glamour' team of 2006. Why? I don't honestly know. I do think there's more continuity in the PL. We've certainly had more meetings this year where both the home & opposition line ups have been as per programme. That didn't happen very often when we were EL (and I'm not just counting Zagar & Hancocks absences). At the end of the day whether it's CL, PL or EL it's still speedway. To be honest, there's very little benefit or even none at all of striving for the top level of British Speedway. I have no doubt you realise that i was not suggesting you, the bulldogs or any other premier league team or supporter lack ambition its just the system seems to promote that attitude, on the one hand it concerns me that teams do not aspire to be in the elite, i cant quite put my finger on why it bothers me but it does, on the other hand i sometimes think does speedway have it right, compare the situation in football where readings sidwell leaves a premiership club where he is a big star to sit on chelseas bench for 12 months, clearly sometimes over ambition can destroy you. Eventually though if teams in the premier pull in the same crowds for the same entrance money whilst paying lower wages how long before all the elite teams want join them and ultimately the standards will get lower and lower. If the points limit doesn't get scrapped we are a couple of years away from riders like brundle riding at number 1 and being head and shoulders above their team mates. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2008 10:45:42 GMT
Whilst I agree Brundle has struggled in the EL, how on earth is he to progress if the likes of him and Schrammy don't take the plunge and pit their wits against the big boys  The problem with Schrammy, and Johnno for that matter is that there just are not enough meetings in EL speedway for them to make a living. Schrammy is quoted as saying he would like to ride about 90(  ) meetings so needs to be able to double up, unfortunately Johnno cannot do that and only has his Swedish club and Ipswich to race for. (unless he can get guest bookings of course), so I agree hatcham, perhaps the whole aspect of speedway needs to be looked at. We seem to have a good crop of young British lads coming through and it needs to be financially viable for them to WANT to race EL, and not have to stay in the PL to make a living to be able to get the experience to make it right to the top of the sport, and to me some sort of help from the governing bodies needs to support them, and not rely on a few wealthy promoters doing it. Back to the play off scenario, I may be wrong, but hasn't a sweetener of something like £60,000 or £90,000 been offered for the PL club should they win the play off??? |
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, it's been the same as the EL, 2 high flying heat leaders, and reserves trailing at the back. (sorry, but this myth that the PL is superior to the EL annoys me somewhat I'm afraid), Fans chose which level of racing they wish to see and support their team, but the make up of the teams is so similar, OK they don't get so much money as the so called "top men" in the EL, but the likes of Tomas Topinka, Ulrich Ostergaard, Jason Bunyan etc., are far too good to be in PL racing, other than they can make more money and be a big fish in a little pool, rather than a small fish in a bigger pool.
, it's interesting to see which teams have only 1 meeting left to run, and all the others have several isn't it?
...one has to wonder why I feel 
) meetings so needs to be able to double up, unfortunately Johnno cannot do that and only has his Swedish club and Ipswich to race for. (unless he can get guest bookings of course), so I agree hatcham, perhaps the whole aspect of speedway needs to be looked at.