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Post by donsking on Oct 21, 2007 23:40:52 GMT
No, if the fuel temperatures were measured after every pit stop, and they were found to be under, then they were running fuel coolers during the race, and that's illegal. From what I have read, they are suggesting that it was the temperature of the fuel going into the cars that was the problem...not that fuel in the cars. The BBC report suggests there would be a power advantage for about 3 laps after the stop while the fuel adjusted to ambient temperatures....So the cars were clearly legal, the issue is with the fuel rigs. Doesn't really make any difference; if the teams were cooling the fuel rigs, then they can pump more fuel into the tank, which is outside the regulations. If they were cooling the tanks, it gives the same result. If they were charge cooling, it gives a performance advantage, which is outside the rules. Whatever, the rules have been broken, but it won't be in the best interests of F1 to do anything so severe as to change the result of the race/championship, so it it's highly unlikely that that will happen.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2007 23:45:29 GMT
Doesn't really make any difference; if the teams were cooling the fuel rigs, then they can pump more fuel into the tank, which is outside the regulations. If they were cooling the tanks, it gives the same result. If they were charge cooling, it gives a performance advantage, which is outside the rules. Whatever, the rules have been broken, but it won't be in the best interests of F1 to do anything so severe as to change the result of the race/championship, so it it's highly unlikely that that will happen. I didn't at any point deny that the rules have been broken. They apparently have. What I was disputing was your comment that the "cars" were illegal...and also pointing out that the rules in practice were broken as well, but a fine sufficed there. I hope that you are right and no change to the finishing order will be made.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2007 23:51:56 GMT
Seems they can take the pts off the teams but maybe not the drivers, as this was done to Schumacher and Coulthard 17 years ago for fuel irregularities after they had finished 1st and 2nd.
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Post by Genghis on Oct 21, 2007 23:52:45 GMT
Whatever, the rules have been broken, but it won't be in the best interests of F1 to do anything so severe as to change the result of the race/championship, so it it's highly unlikely that that will happen. DonsKing, I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with that. If rules have been broken, then the cars should be disqualified. It's immaterial or not whether the championship is affected. In fact, if the cars were to be found illegal and NO action taken, it would be yet another example of bias towards the Ferrari team. I feel sorry for both Kimi and Lewis, who have been innocent of any wrong doings this year.
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Post by donsking on Oct 21, 2007 23:56:05 GMT
Whatever, the rules have been broken, but it won't be in the best interests of F1 to do anything so severe as to change the result of the race/championship, so it it's highly unlikely that that will happen. DonsKing, I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with that. If rules have been broken, then the cars should be disqualified. It's immaterial or not whether the championship is affected. In fact, if the cars were to be found illegal and NO action taken, it would be yet another example of bias towards the Ferrari team. I feel sorry for both Kimi and Lewis, who have been innocent of any wrong doings this year. I refer you to Colin Horton.
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Post by Genghis on Oct 21, 2007 23:59:29 GMT
I refer you to Colin Horton. You what? I might blame Horton for most ills in the world, but I can't quite see why he was to blame for the fuel of the BMWs and the Williams of Rosberg being the wrong temperature
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Post by donsking on Oct 22, 2007 0:09:36 GMT
I refer you to Colin Horton. You what? I might blame Horton for most ills in the world, but I can't quite see why he was to blame for the fuel of the BMWs and the Williams of Rosberg being the wrong temperature F1, like every other form of motorsport (including speedway) is about what you can spin out of it, in terms of making money. The F1 season is over now, a dispute heading into the close season is worth millions in terms of column inches, even if it comes to nothing. Horton spun out the Oxford situation right down to the wire, to say nothing of what might be going on at Peterborough. F1 is no different, it's the quiet time now, everyone in F1 needs to make money for the next few months, 'fuelgate' could give some mileage for a day or two.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2007 0:10:14 GMT
Oxford dropping out midseason, ie who gives a fuck about whether it impacts on the Title or not is immaterial. How about a 3 man race off over 20 laps, ie no fuel stops, to decide this years Champion, mad but worth a shot, think of the extra money for Ecclestone, on a track agreed by all
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Post by Genghis on Oct 22, 2007 0:10:39 GMT
Seems that the race result will stand, even though it's been confirmed that the three cars were illegal.
I'm sure had McLaren had "fuel irregularities" they would have been disqualified immediately.
Finishes off a complete farce of a season on a appropriate note.
Kimi is a worthy world champion, but Mosley and Ecclestone finish the season in complete disgrace.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2007 0:16:44 GMT
F1 A R C E
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2007 0:49:08 GMT
I think it makes sense to leave the result as it is, especially as there are suggestions that the temp measurements may not have been accurate.
Even with accurate temp readings, I think that it would have made sense to leave things as they were. Another favourite sport of mine, NASCAR, learned a long time ago that the result that the fans see on the track is the result that should go into the history books. Any infringements should be dealt with later.
I'm sure that Lewis wouldn't have wanted to win the title in such a manner, and I'm sure he has many titles still to come to him.
He has been an absolute credit to himself and the sport this year, and demonstrated skill levels far above his experience...However, he faltered in the last couple of races when the pressure was on, and that is no more than you could expect of one so young.
I wouldn't be surprised if this failure was actually beneficial. Taking the title so soon could potentially have had an adverse effect on his career....
Let's not forget what a phenomenal achievement 2nd place in his first season is!
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Post by schumi on Oct 22, 2007 7:10:28 GMT
And now McLaren are appealing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2007 11:58:28 GMT
And now McLaren are appealing. And so they should, the bloody Spics would have had their appeal put in by the FIA(T) officials. Just to keep them ahead. The whole thing stinks, just like Stepney, a very credible witness when he is dropping Mclaren in the shit, but not when its disclosed that there are Mclaren bits on the Ferrari. As for a driver having a tantrum and costing his team a $50million fine, how the hell he wasn't sitting out the rest of the season I don't know. Its all become a complete farce, with differing standards depending on which team is involved. It almost makes speedway look well run.
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Post by Genghis on Oct 22, 2007 12:05:04 GMT
And now McLaren are appealing. Good - so Big Ron fucking well should. While this is NOT the way Lewis Hamilton should win the World Championship, there is a principle at stake here. And that is, if the boot was on the other foot, you can bet your bottom dollar that the three cars in question would be disqualified. I'm sick of it being one rule for Ferrari and one for everyone else. If the cars are illegal, they HAVE to be disqualified. No question. Otherwise I'm not ever watching F1 again. Why bother. Why not just award Ferrari both titles for 2008 now
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Post by schumi on Oct 22, 2007 12:36:49 GMT
I'm just not sure how they're going to get themselves out of this one. Either BMW and Williams are allowed to get away with it, proving yet another inconsistency, or they are disqualified and the world championship is decided off the track after the event. Either way it's a farce. Why don't they test cars BEFORE the race and disqualify any that don't meet the rules there and then?
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