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Aug 2, 2007 21:50:09 GMT
Post by donsking on Aug 2, 2007 21:50:09 GMT
Nope, although he is the lowest scoring WC ever, on points available V points scored basis.
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Aug 2, 2007 22:12:10 GMT
Post by Genghis on Aug 2, 2007 22:12:10 GMT
Nope, although he is the lowest scoring WC ever, on points available V points scored basis. OK, was it that a normally aspirated car won the world championship in a season where the turbo cars took virtually every pole position. All the best Rob
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Aug 2, 2007 22:21:12 GMT
Post by donsking on Aug 2, 2007 22:21:12 GMT
Nope, I'll give you a clue; it's a Rosberg related stat.
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Aug 2, 2007 22:24:28 GMT
Post by Genghis on Aug 2, 2007 22:24:28 GMT
Nope, I'll give you a clue; it's a Rosberg related stat. Hmmm, this one is fairly unique, that someone who failed to score a single point the previous season went on to win the championship the following year. Or the fact that Rosberg clinched the 1982 world championship having only one F1 race at that point of his career (the 14th race of 1982). All the best Rob
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Aug 2, 2007 22:29:16 GMT
Post by donsking on Aug 2, 2007 22:29:16 GMT
At bloody last, it was the first one I was looking for, I'm pretty certain no-one has done that before or since; good job Statto!
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Aug 2, 2007 22:33:40 GMT
Post by Genghis on Aug 2, 2007 22:33:40 GMT
At bloody last, it was the first one I was looking for, I'm pretty certain no-one has done that before or since; good job Statto! How about Prost in 1992 and 1993, or is that cheating ;D ;D All the best Rob
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Aug 2, 2007 22:48:30 GMT
Post by donsking on Aug 2, 2007 22:48:30 GMT
It is, Prost took a year out in 92.
Actually, thinking about 82, why did Ferrari choose Patrick Tambay to replace GV?
The previous year, he swapped from Teddy Yip's Theodore team (where he didn't do anything even remotely exciting) to Talbot-Ligier half way through, then failed to even finish a GP, let alone score a point.
Good job he won the German GP after Pironi's career ended during qualifying!
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Aug 2, 2007 23:06:27 GMT
Post by Genghis on Aug 2, 2007 23:06:27 GMT
Actually, thinking about 82, why did Ferrari choose Patrick Tambay to replace GV? Lack of available drivers or maybe a reluctance to step into a dead man's shoes. And surely the bigger shock was when Ferrari managed to persuade Andretti to drive for them in place of the injured Pironi. On the subjest of Andretti, it's slightly before my time, but the general concensus from the history books is that he only won the 1978 championship becuase his faster team-mate (the ill-fated Ronnie Peterson) was ordered to play second fiddle to him. Did the team orders at Lotus decide the 1978 championship, or would Andretti have won even without them? All the best Rob
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Aug 2, 2007 23:23:05 GMT
Post by donsking on Aug 2, 2007 23:23:05 GMT
Peterson was fast, very fast, but he was also a bit inconsistant.
I think the real answer was that Mario brought some serious bucks with him, and ACBC had all the ideas but never any real money to make it happen; Lotus got some championships in the 60s, when it was still possible to win a WC on a slim budget but with a good driver, but by the age of serious sponsorship, the dollars made all the difference.
Peterson was very quick (and surely the most unlucky driver ever to die), but I'm not totally convinced he would've beaten Mario with no team orders, Andretti was very special.
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Aug 3, 2007 14:31:27 GMT
Post by Genghis on Aug 3, 2007 14:31:27 GMT
Peterson was very quick (and surely the most unlucky driver ever to die), but I'm not totally convinced he would've beaten Mario with no team orders, Andretti was very special. DonsKing, I assume you rate Andretti so highly because of his overall record, not just his F1 record, which, while impressive, is surpassed by one of his contemporaries, the amazing Niki Lauda. Andretti's complete record across all competitions is mighty impressive. In the same way, I wish people gave more credit to Mansell for winning back-to-back championships on different sides of the Atlantic. It's quite an achievement, and one he doesn't get enough praise for. Mansell is probably amongst the best three racing drivers this country has produced, statistically he is the most successful (with 31 F1 wins), in reality he's probably third best behind Clark and Moss, and yet he rarely gets credit for it. All the best Rob
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Aug 3, 2007 19:26:13 GMT
Post by donsking on Aug 3, 2007 19:26:13 GMT
Absolutely Rob, on paper Andretti was no better than many F1 drivers, but as an all round race car driver (and I believe he was no slouch on a bike either) there can't have been many better; I'm no Andretti historian, but I think he won races in tintops, open wheelers, sports/Can Am cars, on both ovals and road circuits and, off the top of my head, had a professional career that lasted the thick end of 40 years, that's some going by anyone's standards. As for Mansell, there's no doubt that holding the F1 and Indy championships simultaneously was a huge achievement, and it was pretty clear that the Yanks had no way of dealing with an out and out racer like he was, but I think his memory is tarnished by his enormously underwhelming early showing in F1 and his incessant bloody whinging! I think if he could've just won the odd race and not moaned about the failing gearbox, the bad handling, the vibration or the lack of power, he would be held in much higher regard today. EDIT: something I just remembered that annoyed me intensely about Mansell, I think he was the first driver to make constant reference to the Royal 'we', as in " We had a good qualifying session", " We did a reasonable pitstop", or " We were having a good race until..........". No Nigel, you were having a good race, it's just you and the car, and that's a fucking machine not an entity in it's own right!
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Aug 4, 2007 10:12:45 GMT
Post by jimblanchard on Aug 4, 2007 10:12:45 GMT
Here are a couple for you 'classic' F1 types. 'We are not sure of the year though... Can anyone advise us? ;D Hmmm... Turbo Renault with skirts, that's what I call a motor John... ;D
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Aug 4, 2007 11:05:43 GMT
Post by donsking on Aug 4, 2007 11:05:43 GMT
We've scratched the collective head and we think that's a Lotus 87, which would make it 1981, fairly early on in their F1 career! ;D
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Aug 4, 2007 11:17:02 GMT
Post by schumi on Aug 4, 2007 11:17:02 GMT
Prost drove in car 15 for Renault between 81 and 83 certainly.
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Aug 4, 2007 11:20:51 GMT
Post by Genghis on Aug 4, 2007 11:20:51 GMT
We've scratched the collective head and we think that's a Lotus 87, which would make it 1981, fairly early on in their F1 career! ;D The JPS Lotus has to be the best-ever blending of motor car and sponsor - they were beautiful looking things in the black and gold livery. And put Ayrton Senna in the car and it was even more a thing of wonder. Senna was "my villain" at that point (he and Mansell seemed to clash on the racetrack at least once a season!), but I still rated him as a superb driver. Shame, Lotus then put Senna in that bright yellow monstrosity in 1986. As for the drivers in the photos, I think the top one is Prost, who's the driver in the bottom photo? It's not Mansell is it, I thought he had a black helmet while driving for Lotus. All the best Rob
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