Rule? What rules?

[Deleted]

I have, like many others, for a long time been trying to fathom out the many so called rules in speedway but at the moment there are a few which have been brought to light elsewhere that have me concerned and would like to know other speedway fans views. I am also hoping that maybe my own promotion can set the book straight (is that the correct phrase?) ont the Chatzone for us who seem to be in the dark.

1. It would appear that an Elite League team can claim any rider as an asset even though they have never ridden for them, yet a Premier League team have to have a rider ride twelve matches for them before the can lay claim to the rider. Why is this?

2. There has been much debate (again elsewhere) about work permit riders. Just to refresh, the main bone of contention amongst fans at the moment is the Chris Kerr situation. Now leaving behind whether people agree or disagree with the work permit rule, which is if a work permit rider, in this case Chris Kerr who came in on an assessed 8.00 average with a work permit, changes clubs and said rider has not reached said 8.00 average within a set time, then his new club has to apply for a new work permit again in this case because Chris is an American, on 8.00. Now Newport have signed Kerr and announced him on a 6.47 average which is the average he obtained last season.

We know that all teams have to be declared to the BSPA for clearance but another little scenario has also risen. Are we all keeping up?

Chris Kerr was announced by Wolverhampton as one of their "double upper" riders before he had signed for a PL team. Fair enough some might say but being the sceptical person that I am I have some issues about this whole scenario.

If Kerr, as the rules state, had been given the reassessed 8.00 average then he would have been unable to double up. Has the rule been changed? I did ask a promoter if the rule had changed and he said it hadn't. Sooooooooo is a flanker being pulled here?

My opinion for what it's worth is that rules are being manipulated to suit. Is it that Wolverhampton are saying that they are Kerr's "parent" club therefore it doesn't matter who he is loaned out to the work permit rule doesn't apply?

3. What is the position about riders on an assessed avearge doubling up? I had been told that these riders couldn't double up until they had obtained an actual average yet Darcy Ward was announced by Ipswich and there are rumours that talented American/NZ Ricky Wells may double up?

Again my opnion is that riders new to the PL should not be allowed to come here and take up places in two leagues.

Confused? I guarantee you will be. Why oh why are there speedway rules with so many holes that the rule book ends up looking like a blooming patchwork quilt.

Let the discussion begin

[Deleted]

You ask some very valid questions there ML, most of which we'll never get categoric confirmation of, I expect.

Regarding your first question........what makes you say that?

I believe the rule for riders' becoming assets is the same in both leagues, and the example of Karol Zabik would appear to confirm that.....he's ridden at EL level for both Peterborough and Poole in recent seasons, but hasn't recorded 12 meetings (in one season) for either team.......I believe when he's ridden in his twelth meeting for the Panthers this year, he'll become a Peterborough asset.

[admin]

To me, the sport in this country is above board on the track, but off the track, in the corridors of power it is sinking into a quagmire of disrepute. There appears to be no rule or regulation that can't be subverted by a promoter like CVS, who abuses his position to advance his own interests.
But the way things are at the minute, it seems some clubs are so desperate to get riders that the BSPA are willing to countenance anything. Integrity, it seems, is all well and good, but it doesn't take to the track.
And I have to say that it appears to me that certain Premier League clubs have actively colluded with Elite League clubs in the first point Midnight_Lady is making. If we take, as an example, Australians like Chris Holder, who nominally became an Isle of Wight asset during his first season over here. It seems almost certain that the Isle of Wight had an agreement with Poole - they got Holder for a couple of seasons and then transferred him to Poole.
I'm sure there are other examples. Gathercole appears to be a Swindon asset tied in a similar deal with the Isle of Wight. Certain Premier League clubs seem willing to accept this situation in order to get promising riders.

[Deleted]

Jan 10, 2009 19:41:34 GMT admin said:

To me, the sport in this country is above board on the track, but off the track, in the corridors of power it is sinking into a quagmire of disrepute. There appears to be no rule or regulation that can't be subverted by a promoter like CVS, who abuses his position to advance his own interests.
But the way things are at the minute, it seems some clubs are so desperate to get riders that the BSPA are willing to countenance anything. Integrity, it seems, is all well and good, but it doesn't take to the track.
And I have to say that it appears to me that certain Premier League clubs have actively colluded with Elite League clubs in the first point Midnight_Lady is making. If we take, as an example, Australians like Chris Holder, who was nominally became an Isle of Wight asset during his first season over here. It seems almost certain that the Isle of Wight had an agreement with Poole - they got Holder for a couple of seasons and then transferred him to Poole.
I'm sure there are other examples. Gathercole appears to be a Swindon asset tied in a similar deal with the Isle of Wight. Certain Premier League clubs seem willing to accept this situation in order to get promising riders.

I think a certain amount of " farming out " with riders has went on between clubs in both leagues . But that is really nothing new - in fact in days gone by it was worse - you had teams like Belle Vue and Rochdale which were linked .
I think it's pretty evident that the sport is corrupt in the way it has been run . Certain promoters and clubs manipulate things to suit their own ends . What can you do - i love going to watch 4 riders do battle over 4 laps on a shale track , if that spectacle gets killed by the powers that be with their own agendas - then i'm afraid that's what will happen .

[admin]

Well, I've said it for long enough now, but every year just re-inforces the point: the rules in British speedway seem designed to encourage what we could generously call "sharp practice". But now, with this affair over Chris Kerr, the rules aren't just being bent, they're being ridden over roughshod.
At the start of the season Kerr knew the score. He had to get a seven point average to secure his work permit. If he didn't get it he'd have to re-apply and suffer the consequences of a return to his assessed average. That's what happened to Ryan Fisher when he joined Edinburgh last season.

[Deleted]

Jan 10, 2009 19:10:57 GMT @kevh said:

Regarding your first question........what makes you say that?

I believe the rule for riders' becoming assets is the same in both leagues, and the example of Karol Zabik would appear to confirm that.....he's ridden at EL level for both Peterborough and Poole in recent seasons, but hasn't recorded 12 meetings (in one season) for either team.......I believe when he's ridden in his twelth meeting for the Panthers this year, he'll become a Peterborough asset.

Statements like this about Richard Sweetman. They also announced the signings of the Sedgeman brothers saying they were assets of the club before they had even taken to the track in this country.

Magnus Karlsson rode for Edinburgh when he first came across but was considered a Wolves asset even though he didn't ride for them and wasn't Chris Holder a Poole asset but loaned out to IOW when he first came over?

[admin]

Jan 11, 2009 18:37:55 GMT @midnightlady said:

Magnus Karlsson rode for Edinburgh when he first came across but was considered a Wolves asset even though he didn't ride for them and wasn't Chris Holder a Poole asset but loaned out to IOW when he first came over?

I don't know the "ins and outs" of Magnus Karlsson, but Chris Holder became an asset of the Isle of Wight after he rode twelve meetings for them in 2006. However, it appears that there was a pre-existing agreement between Poole and the Isle of Wight regarding Holder. Like I said in my initial response, it does appear that certain PL promotions are willing to collude with EL clubs on this matter.

[Deleted]

I believe each team can name one 'protected asset' each season.

What this means is that an EL club (for example) could sign a rider as a 'protected asset' and loan him to a PL club for the season. If the rider then rode the requsite 12 meetings for the EL club the following year he would become an asset of theirs, but if he didn't ride for them he'd become a 'free agent' and whoever he rode 12 meetings for after that would gain him as an asset.

Each club can only sign one 'protected asset' in any year.

I believe this to be accurate, but it may possibly have been changed as many rule changes aren't made public.

[admin]

Jan 10, 2009 18:54:10 GMT @midnightlady said:

3. What is the position about riders on an assessed avearge doubling up? I had been told that these riders couldn't double up until they had obtained an actual average yet Darcy Ward was announced by Ipswich and there are rumours that talented American/NZ Ricky Wells may double up?

Support for the midnightlady's understanding of the position from an unlikely source:

colpanthers.proboards102.com/index.cgi?board=chat&action=display&thread=925&page=1

Anyone thinking that some scratching of backs will see this sorted out in favour of Ipswich and any club taking on Wells as a doubling up rider?

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2009 14:21:58 GMT admin said:

Jan 10, 2009 18:54:10 GMT @midnightlady said:

3. What is the position about riders on an assessed avearge doubling up? I had been told that these riders couldn't double up until they had obtained an actual average yet Darcy Ward was announced by Ipswich and there are rumours that talented American/NZ Ricky Wells may double up?

Support for the midnightlady's understanding of the position from an unlikely source:

colpanthers.proboards102.com/index.cgi?board=chat&action=display&thread=925&page=1

Anyone thinking that some scratching of backs will see this sorted out in favour of Ipswich and any club taking on Wells as a doubling up rider?

Or sour grapes down the horror's way

[Deleted]

So does that mean that THJ is a Edinburgh asset as he has rode more than 12 meetings for us? What about the Fish he has also rode more than 12 meetings

[admin]

Jan 16, 2009 13:12:12 GMT @snyper1010 said:

So does that mean that THJ is a Edinburgh asset as he has rode more than 12 meetings for us? What about the Fish he has also rode more than 12 meetings

Jonasson is most certainly an Edinburgh asset; Fisher is most certainly not an Edinburgh asset. Fisher is on loan to Edinburgh from, I believe, Coventry. The twelve meeting rule just concerns riders who are new to these shores.

[Genghis]

Jan 16, 2009 13:19:23 GMT admin said:

Jan 16, 2009 13:12:12 GMT @snyper1010 said:

So does that mean that THJ is a Edinburgh asset as he has rode more than 12 meetings for us? What about the Fish he has also rode more than 12 meetings

Jonasson is most certainly an Edinburgh asset; Fisher is most certainly not an Edinburgh asset. Fisher is on loan to Edinburgh from, I believe, Coventry. The twelve meeting rule just concerns riders who are new to these shores.

But did THJ compete in as many as 12 meetings for Edinburgh in 2008?

[Deleted]

25 meetings i believe THJ rode in for Edinburgh