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Post by schumi on Oct 11, 2008 23:11:04 GMT
On Friday, BMW's Robert Kubica, who came through the karting ranks alongside Hamilton, claimed most Formula One drivers believe some of the young Briton's moves are too dangerous.
The Pole deemed moves by Hamilton on Toyota's Timo Glock and Renault's Fernando Alonso at the Italian Grand Prix last month were too much.
From PlanetF1.
Is he right, or is it just sour grapes?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2008 0:47:32 GMT
Sour grapes. I say that having not actually seen any of the incidents and so being completely unable to make a balanced comment....It just sounds like sour grapes tho  |
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Post by schumi on Oct 12, 2008 4:41:16 GMT
Well he's having a mad moment this morning! Too desperate.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2008 5:01:28 GMT
Well he's having a mad moment this morning! Too desperate. I agree Schumi, but Massa seems equally as mad |
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Post by schumi on Oct 12, 2008 5:03:43 GMT
Indeed, but Lewis cost himself the championship last year by not staying cool. Both cars given drive-through penalties for pushing each other off anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2008 5:17:37 GMT
Well he's having a mad moment this morning! Too desperate. Far too desperate, I thought he was suppose to have grown up from last year, and was going to be cautious in the last few grand prixs. At least Massa is not in the points as well. |
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Post by Genghis on Oct 12, 2008 12:02:05 GMT
Indeed, but Lewis cost himself the championship last year by not staying cool. Both cars given drive-through penalties for pushing each other off anyway. Schumi, was it fair? Lewis did push Raikkonen wide, but his only contact when was Massa ran into him. On the other hand, Massa ran into two cars today. And for the second incident, the other driver has been penalised for Massa's mistake, therefore gifting Massa an extra point he didn't deserve. I don't think Lewis should have got a stop-go penalty, the fact he lost out time to Massa hitting him should have been taken into consideration. On the other hand, Massa should have recevied a penalty for the collision with Bourdais - not the other way around.  |
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Post by schumi on Oct 12, 2008 13:24:46 GMT
I'd had three hours sleep, blinked, and missed the Bourdais incident. Lewis needs to learn to overtake other drivers without shunting them off the track. His penalty was for hitting Massa at the start, not for the spin.
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Post by Genghis on Oct 12, 2008 13:33:51 GMT
I'd had three hours sleep, blinked, and missed the Bourdais incident. Lewis needs to learn to overtake other drivers without shunting them off the track. His penalty was for hitting Massa at the start, not for the spin. Schumi, do you mean Raikkonen? If so, Lewis did take him wide, but there was no contact. It sets a rather dangerous precedent to punish every driver who takes another driver wide on the first turn. And it's never been done before. Why do it now? Hmmm, could it be because Hamilton is battling a red car for the championship? And what the hell was Bourdais supposed to have done wrong. This is the one I really can't understand. |
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Post by schumi on Oct 12, 2008 13:40:12 GMT
I thought it was Raikkonen too, but commentary said Massa? Not that it really matters, it's the principle.
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Post by schumi on Oct 12, 2008 21:34:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2008 13:40:41 GMT
Is he right, or is it just sour grapes? The question is, do we actually want to see some proper racing in F1, or just a polite procession? There is often a fine line between dangerous driving and daring overtaking, and on some circuits you don't have a lot of choice. Hamilton is an aggressive racer, but I don't think a particularly dangerous one. Inevitably if you try enough overtaking maneuvers, then you're going to make a mistake sometimes. However, he's got me watching GPs again, simply because he's found ways of passing that few other drivers in the past 10 years have. With respect to the first bend of a GP, I think you need to allow some leeway for driver error without penalty. Not only are tyres not up to full temperature yet and therefore don't grip as well, but you can't always go into the first bend on an optimal line due to other drivers around you. Everyone is jockeying for position, and even small mistakes or losing grip through no fault of your own can have consequences for those around you. If you try to eliminate all risk and error from F1, it's going to be even duller than it is now. |
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Post by schumi on Oct 17, 2008 8:38:21 GMT
From PlanetF1:
Mark Webber fears Lewis Hamilton will cause an accident if he fails to temper his aggressive driving style.
Grand Prix Drivers' Association chairman Webber and Jarno Trulli are to raise recent incidents involving Hamilton at Friday's drivers' briefing at the Shanghai International Circuit.
Both Webber and Trulli insist they are not picking on Hamilton, who has faced a storm of criticism of late in relation to his on-track performances.
Robert Kubica last week sparked the furore by slating Hamilton for a number of moves in the rain-hit Italian Grand Prix last month.
Hamilton then caused his own downfall in Sunday's Japanese Grand Prix with a late braking manoeuvre into turn one after seeing Kimi Raikkonen overhaul him on the run down to the first corner.
Raikkonen was forced off the Fuji Circuit, resulting in Hamilton incurring the wrath of the stewards for the sixth time this year as he was hit with a drive-through penalty.
The outgoing World Champion then slammed Hamilton's error as "an inexplicable mistake," while former three-times champion Sir Jackie Stewart felt the 23-year-old was being "slightly arrogant."
It means Webber will now raise the late-braking matter with race director Charlie Whiting in front of all the other drivers.
The Australian is looking to make clear the situation, not just for Hamilton, but all concerned in the hope of avoiding a future recipe for disaster.
"The braking areas are an issue because you cannot move around in the braking areas like that," asserted Webber.
"We lost a marshal at Monza (2000 Italian Grand Prix) when there were guys moving around in the braking areas.
"It is very hard to change your line if you don't know what is going to come. That is the only thing that we need to look at.
"This has all happened because the braking points have become so short and it is over so quickly.
"If any guys moves two or three metres left or right then you have contact and you have tethers (on the wheels) going off, so that is what we want a chat about.
"When you look at the first corner in Fuji it was pretty wild. He (Hamilton) was having a crack.
"But if someone had been sitting on his right rear when he pulled out there, then that was a crash.
"There was also no way he was going to make the first corner, and whilst it is not illegal to outbrake yourself, we want to have a bit of a chat about moving around in the braking areas."
As for Trulli, he will draw to Whiting's attention Hamilton failing to allow the Italian by when he was leading in Fuji and the Briton was trailing at the back of the pack.
"I am definitely unhappy with Hamilton," said Trulli.
"I was leading the race and he was lapped, but for two laps he held me up. Lewis did not even watch the mirrors.
"He probably should have paid more attention because he was more or less out of the race. He was dead last, and I don't understand why he did what he did.
"I feel it is unfair to talk about it with him personally. It is better to discuss it with him and tell him (at the briefing), as I will do tomorrow.
"I will go into the drivers' briefing and I will tell Charlie what happened and say I believe Lewis could have handled it a different way because it was not fair.
"I am not going against anyone. I am not the kind of person who if I don't get on with them I make it a war of words.
"I just want an easy life without fighting. I just want to make the sport fair for everyone.
"I don't care if you are driving for a top team or are in the last car, I expect everyone to be treated the same."
Webber maintains Hamilton is "a phenomenal talent," and recognises he is on a steep learning curve as it is still only his second year in Formula One.
However, the Australian believes Hamilton could show greater regard for his fellow drivers than he appears to be doing at present.
"I haven't seen what he did with Jarno," added Webber.
"But Monza was a tough race for him in terms of what he did to me, to (Timo) Glock and to Fernando (Alonso).
"He didn't get a penalty in Monza, so he didn't do anything wrong in anyone's eyes, so that was fine.
"But his respected colleagues are sometimes saying, 'mate, it doesn't need to be like that all the time.'
"I am not smashing Hamilton, but it is about how you move on. Tiger Woods learns. Roger Federer learns, and Lewis is going through that."
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Post by Genghis on Oct 17, 2008 11:55:17 GMT
What a load of jealous nonsense from Webber.  So what is Lewis Hamilton supposed to do? Sit behind the other cars for two hours? I'm glad Hamilton is a racer, it's a long-time since we had a racer in F1 ("Fat boy" Montoya was the closest we've had in recent times). Maybe Webber should watch the way Gilles Villeneuve, Arnoux, etc used to race. That's the way it SHOULD be - not all this passing in the pits bullshit that Schumacher and Ferrari invented. |
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