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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2008 22:51:37 GMT
I don't see the riders going with that at all. They'll go where the folding is.
Also, I don't believe for 1 minute that Polska and Sweden would contemplate removing GP Stars - they're doing just fine with them.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2008 22:54:40 GMT
Yes, we had the choice, and chose to sign AJ..........and on 8.35 we'd have been mad not to...............but we also signed Lubos Tomicek and Jonas Davidsson who are not GP riders but got sucked into the circus on Saturday...........the GP's are milking the assets of club sides throughout Europe and, as the Cook Meister says, enough should be enough. TBF Kev then in the next breath the Swedes will say I don't want the Swedish riders to ride 3,4 times a week in the BEL, and the same with the Poles and the BEL will flounder to a full stop. Might just as well take Lakeside back down to the PL then You can't sign GP riders, and then moan when 1) they are not available to ride on GP weekends, and 2) bemoan the fact that they get injured, they could get injured over here couldn't they , admittedly the track was bad on Saturday, but TBF it was bad for all the riders and not just NK,Hans and AJ. I'm not sure it would flounder though Badger.........the Swedish league offers riders one night's racing a week...........the British League offers at least twice that. We're not moaning about AJ racing in GP's..............we've arranged our fixtures around that, as have most clubs who employ GP riders............but it's not ideal, is it? I disagree about bemoaning when our club assets get injured on a dangerous track.............when it's a track prepared by gold diggers.........and a track prepared by people who have NO financial investment in the riders they are using.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2008 22:56:32 GMT
I do think it's fair to say that they cannot continue to co-habitate in the current guise.
For me the EL must go 1 or 2 nights per week, with home matches on a fortnightly basis.
We need to make ourselves attractive to the top boys again, not cut them out all together. British Speedway has buried it's head, got too full of its own importance and not adapted to the changing Speedway world.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2008 22:59:38 GMT
I don't see the riders going with that at all. They'll go where the folding is. Also, I don't believe for 1 minute that Polska and Sweden would contemplate removing GP Stars - they're doing just fine with them. Oooogers mate, you're missing the point totally...........take a step back, pretend the statement came from Rosco.........add some spelling mistakes for authenticity............and then read it slowly...............he's on your side honest, and at a push I reckon he may even support the Mads for Parken protest.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2008 23:01:34 GMT
We need to make ourselves attractive to the top boys again, not cut them out all together. British Speedway has buried it's head, got too full of its own importance and not adapted to the changing Speedway world. And I can't see anyone disagreeing with that............it's how we achieve it that is debateable.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2008 23:03:37 GMT
To me, speedway is SGP and EL. I love watching the top riders in both and so I would rather see things carry on as they are rather than lose one or the other, so I'm afraid I'm another not supporting Jon Cook although I applaud his outspokenness. But LW, what Cookie is saying is that things simply can't carry on as they are...........somethings got to give.........and he's right if you think about it.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2008 23:05:32 GMT
Not sure I am Kev - I believe he's saying that we should offer an alternative to the GP for the top riders. My point is that I don't believe Sweden and Poland will see the need to change anf there's no way on Earth Britain could match the money on offer from the Golem Olsen and IMG. The top boys would cut and run and leave the Leagues floundering IMO. What can't be denied is that something must be done pretty quickly. In my opinion we need to change to accomodate the GP's more readily, not the other way around. There's far too many references to actual Speedway in there for Rosco to have been anywhere near it - he backed Lewis Hamilton for last weekend's GP! I don't honestly believe that even Mr Cook is so dillusional that he thinks Mads should be wildcard mate
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Post by admin on May 28, 2008 23:23:06 GMT
That depends on what sort of money is available from IMG-BSI. As I understand it, Cook is right to suggest that the GPs are effectively subsidised by the three principal leagues and that most riders operate at a loss in the GPs. Certainly Wieslaw Jagus, after one season in the GPs, where he suffered an injury that cost him several league meetings, shows no great desire to get back into the series. It's a vanity thing for the riders, at the minute, although some possibly make it pay through sponsorship. I personally think the GPs will implode eventually.
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Post by schumi on May 29, 2008 6:07:04 GMT
I actually think there's a deeper rooted problem here - the lack of riders willing or able to ride in Britain. But isn't that our own fault? Okay, so some teams fare better than others, and have built up a good relationship with one or two riders who they can always rely on - Lakeside were able to tempt Andreas back, Coventry had their pick of the two main Brits, Ipswich will always have Louis, but look at other teams - Peterborough, if you believe Trevor Swales, have had 25 riders turn them down, Berwick seem to suffer from <insert applicable word here> and never have a full team, and Glasgow's side have been decimated by injury. That's not to mention the likes of Pedersen, Ulamek, Protasiewicz, Jagus, etc, who don't want to, or don't need to ride here. So how do they fill the teams, for a start, and then cover for injures, especially if it's a much sought-after 5 pointer? That seems to be the issue, and I've been saying it all season - there just aren't enough riders. But if you look at the line-ups in other countries, there's only a handful of top-liners who ride there anyway - it's the same names over and over. So how do Poland and Sweden manage? Well, although I do like the squad systems, it's more down to their own development of "home" riders - there are plenty of juniors coming through in both countries. Just look at the line-ups for the Polish Championships - four semis with at least half a dozen riders I've never even heard of, whereas we, in Britain, have one round of 16 riders where we seem to be struggling to fill the places. I'd suggest the problem in Britain isn't down to the GPs per se, although in the Elite League, especially, I can see the attraction of having a top line rider (and most of you know I'm with LW on this one); but the problem is more that we rely on riders from other countries, then effectively tell them we don't need them (oh yes we do!), and wonder why there's no-one left to fill the places. It's now that we become reliant on the GP riders we were so keen to get rid of with the rules over he winter. If there were eligible replacements for Andreas I don't think this would be so much of an issue, but we simply don't. So what do we do? Well, if we keep telling the "foreign" riders effectively we don't need them, the only solution is to develop our own talent. But we don't seem very good at that either, do we?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 8:07:12 GMT
On that point it's time the second tier of British speedway went back to being just for British and Commonwealth riders only , just as it was in the seventies . The EL would have to be expanded to at least 12 teams and the CL scrapped , for this to work . Sheffield , Kings Lynn and Birmingham would move up , and the existing PL would be joined by Plymouth and hopefully Exeter and Oxford . An Academy league could be set up for those young riders not yet good enough for PL speedway . There are just too many average foreign riders competing in the PL , taking up places that young Brits could be filling .
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 16:46:31 GMT
I tend to agree, the Promoters are going to have to get together and all agree on 2 viable race nights, so that the riders know exactly where and when they will be over here, that IMO would help enormously with attracting the riders to stay (top line I mean), cut costs of flying them about (I understand that the promoters fund this, but I stand corrected if this is not the case) and also this would mean in effect that the Polish Federation would actually know which nights their riders would be unavailable for any rain off re-arranged meetings. Also this would not impact on the GP's too much. Kev.....back to Tomichek and Davidsson, how on earth can you stop those lads from riding in the GP's, it's the shop window for them to get sponsorship etc, and a goal for them to attain. No I agree with Cooke about the funding of the GP's, and taking valuable money out of the British speedway. Interesting to hear that Swindon have signed a new asset....an Aussie that's hardly helping the Brits is it, bit like Poole really . And sorry to labour this, but Schumi spoke about our British final, and we have a young lad in Schrammy who's made the step up from the Pl to EL, and is not even in the British final no incentive for our riders to improve is there
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 18:18:45 GMT
I actually think there's a deeper rooted problem here - the lack of riders willing or able to ride in Britain. But isn't that our own fault? Okay, so some teams fare better than others, and have built up a good relationship with one or two riders who they can always rely on - Lakeside were able to tempt Andreas back, Coventry had their pick of the two main Brits, Ipswich will always have Louis, but look at other teams - Peterborough, if you believe Trevor Swales, have had 25 riders turn them down, Berwick seem to suffer from <insert applicable word here> and never have a full team, and Glasgow's side have been decimated by injury. That's not to mention the likes of Pedersen, Ulamek, Protasiewicz, Jagus, etc, who don't want to, or don't need to ride here. So how do they fill the teams, for a start, and then cover for injures, especially if it's a much sought-after 5 pointer? That seems to be the issue, and I've been saying it all season - there just aren't enough riders. But if you look at the line-ups in other countries, there's only a handful of top-liners who ride there anyway - it's the same names over and over. So how do Poland and Sweden manage? Well, although I do like the squad systems, it's more down to their own development of "home" riders - there are plenty of juniors coming through in both countries. Just look at the line-ups for the Polish Championships - four semis with at least half a dozen riders I've never even heard of, whereas we, in Britain, have one round of 16 riders where we seem to be struggling to fill the places. I'd suggest the problem in Britain isn't down to the GPs per se, although in the Elite League, especially, I can see the attraction of having a top line rider (and most of you know I'm with LW on this one); but the problem is more that we rely on riders from other countries, then effectively tell them we don't need them (oh yes we do!), and wonder why there's no-one left to fill the places. It's now that we become reliant on the GP riders we were so keen to get rid of with the rules over he winter. If there were eligible replacements for Andreas I don't think this would be so much of an issue, but we simply don't. So what do we do? Well, if we keep telling the "foreign" riders effectively we don't need them, the only solution is to develop our own talent. But we don't seem very good at that either, do we? One of the main reason some of the better riders don't ride here is because the 5 nights a week race nights sooner or later we must get down to two or one ........ these guys have family just like anyone else . To me everythink that cooks says is about cutting the cost makeing the product weaker and in my book that is not the way forward we would just die a slow death . The gp's are great the top riders going for broke the only thing to me that you can show a mate and them think this speedway lark is not that bad . Lets make the el 8 big teams on two race nights with a good points limit and see where it takes us .
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 20:48:19 GMT
However, events of saturday night have put all of that in the shade and whether you agree or not its time to have my two peneth worth on the subject of this sports version of the "Emperors new clothes" the GP series. I've long considered the SGP to be the Emperor's New Clothes, but it just amazes me it's taken the powers-that-be and others so long to work it out. The SGP leaches off the three main leagues that pay the riders a living way, whilst returning nothing directly to them. All it served was to enrich BSI and now IMG, which were/are private entities with no stake in the grassroots level of the sport. People ask why Poland and Sweden should stand-up against the SGP as well? Well their assets are also being used to make profits for a private company, and they receive nothing in return. Moreover, if IMG are able to make the SGP profitable, then why couldn't the BSPA, PZM and SVEMO collectively do the same and keep all the money for themselves? Allowing the SGP to be run by a third party really shows the lack of imagination and leadership that exists within the national speedway leagues.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 20:56:17 GMT
The gp's are great the top riders going for broke the only thing to me that you can show a mate and them think this speedway lark is not that bad . Perhaps, but why is the BSPA, PZM and SVEMO not running the SGP as their showcase, instead letting IMG run off with the profits?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2008 21:10:29 GMT
The gp's are great the top riders going for broke the only thing to me that you can show a mate and them think this speedway lark is not that bad . Perhaps, but why is the BSPA, PZM and SVEMO not running the SGP as their showcase, instead letting IMG run off with the profits? Quite simple the bspa pzm and svemo would not all be singing off the same song sheet to many indians . The pzm do what they want most of time anyhow never seen them get into bed with the bspa . Img make money so what ? to me there doing a good job much better than the bspa would do god help us if that had to run anythink look at the el .
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