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Post by Genghis on Mar 24, 2008 12:05:33 GMT
The thing I have against the bonus point is it being dished out on the result of a race-off when the scores are level - if the sides are even after 30 heats, just don't bother with the bonus point. Oh come on. The run-off is exciting. Or aren't the fans allowed to be entertained?  |
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Post by admin on Mar 24, 2008 12:06:50 GMT
Away from the bonus point arguement for a minute . I find the Ht 15 experiment in qualification process for the PL Pairs ( in PT matches ) an interesting developement . It's stupid, pure and simple. After all, it's not as if your pairing for the Premier League pairs in guaranteed to be in Ht 15. In your Premier Trophy campaign you might have 3-4 different riders playing a role in Ht 15. |
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Post by admin on Mar 24, 2008 12:08:03 GMT
Oh come on. The run-off is exciting. Or aren't the fans allowed to be entertained? Bollocks. Generally all over by the first bend. |
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Post by Genghis on Mar 24, 2008 12:12:07 GMT
Only really Exeter mate , Kings Lynn won the league title last year and by quite a distance . There are valid arguements on both sides , but it just used to annoy me seeing the likes of Sheffield and Rye House in false positions because of their massive home track advantage . It's debatable whether Rye House would have even qualified for the play-offs last season had it not been for the 14 or 15 bonus points . I'm with paulco on this one - the bonus point is supposed to encourage away sides, but all it often does is encourage the home side to knock up as big a score as is possible. And that's probably why Rosco wants it back. I think I would be right in saying that in last year's Elite League, it was Swindon that knocked up the biggest wins at home. Paulco - of course, an alternative could be to award teams for reaching certain points targets in away matches. For example, 1 point for 35 points, 2 points for 40 points, 3 points for a draw and 4 points for an away win. Meanwhile, the home team would get a standard 3 points for a win (whatever the margin of victory) and 1 point for a draw. D'you think that would work? But, in its absence, we need the aggregate point back to keep meetings alive - I saw a prime example of such a match at Coventry on Good Friday, when it was obvious the Bees were going to win after 4 races, BUT had there been an aggregate point, it wouldn't have been decided until Heat 14. Keeping the public entertained comes before whether two sides in a 17-side competition may have a large home track advantage. |
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Post by Genghis on Mar 24, 2008 12:14:28 GMT
Oh come on. The run-off is exciting. Or aren't the fans allowed to be entertained? Bollocks. Generally all over by the first bend. You're the one talking bollocks. Match races are often better than 4-man races. Personally, I want the Golden Helmet back. Perhaps the best race I ever saw was a Golden Helmet match race. |
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Post by admin on Mar 24, 2008 12:16:34 GMT
Paulco - of course, an alternative could be to award teams for reaching certain points targets in away matches. For example, 1 point for 35 points, 2 points for 40 points, 3 points for a draw and 4 points for an away win. Meanwhile, the home team would get a standard 3 points for a win (whatever the margin of victory) and 1 point for a draw. D'you think that would work? I suggested that on the BSF a couple of years ago, with an all too predictable response. I like it as a concept. I think the way I had it was: Away team scores less than 35 points - 0 points Away team scores more than 35 points - 2 points Away team scores more than 40 points - 4 points Away team wins - 6 points Home team wins - 6 points Draw - 5 points each |
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Post by admin on Mar 24, 2008 12:20:26 GMT
Personally, I want the Golden Helmet back. Perhaps the best race I ever saw was a Golden Helmet match race. Only worth doing if it's done properly and not turned into the abortion the Golden Helmet was by the end. Contesting it at the end of every meeting featuring the holder killed the Golden Helmet. But the Golden Helmet's day was the 1970s - leave it there. |
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Post by Genghis on Mar 24, 2008 12:24:01 GMT
Paulco - of course, an alternative could be to award teams for reaching certain points targets in away matches. For example, 1 point for 35 points, 2 points for 40 points, 3 points for a draw and 4 points for an away win. Meanwhile, the home team would get a standard 3 points for a win (whatever the margin of victory) and 1 point for a draw. D'you think that would work? I suggested that on the BSF a couple of years ago, with an all too predictable response. I like it as a concept. I think the way I had it was: Away team scores less than 35 points - 0 points Away team scores more than 35 points - 2 points Away team scores more than 40 points - 4 points Away team wins - 6 points Home team wins - 6 points Draw - 5 points each There you go - it should be you and me running British Speedway, Sub   |
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Post by Genghis on Mar 24, 2008 12:31:10 GMT
Personally, I want the Golden Helmet back. Perhaps the best race I ever saw was a Golden Helmet match race. Only worth doing if it's done properly and not turned into the abortion the Golden Helmet was by the end. Contesting it at the end of every meeting featuring the holder killed the Golden Helmet. But the Golden Helmet's day was the 1970s - leave it there. Ironically, it was a match race at the end of the meeting that produced the race I was referring to. Hans Nielsen had to miss an Oxford meeting due to the Scandinavian Final being rained off and restaged, and his absence allowed Marvyn Cox to challenge for and win the Golden Helmet. Cradley came visiting, and reigning World Champion Erik Gundersen finished top of their scorechart. In the Golden Helmet match race, Erik gated and you could almost hear the collective sigh from the crowd. However, after spending two laps on his tail, Cocker darted past him. A stunned Gundersen spent the last two laps attempting to hit back, but Cocker held on for a famous victory that completely overshadowed Oxford's win over Cradley in the previous 13 races. But, yes, contesting it at the start of the meeting did work better. For a start, it was known in advance who the two competitors were and could be advertised, and this in itself could draw in the punters. I remember such a case at Oxford in 1984, where the unattractive visit of Halifax (minus the injured Kenny Carter) drew a bumper crowd due to the Nielsen vs Gundersen Golden Helmet match races which preceeded it (with Erik being the victor on this ocassion, which made it all the more sweeter when Erik came back the following week with Cradley and scored 2 points from 5 rides!!). |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2008 12:39:50 GMT
Yes, young paulco, I think Rosco is being a little disingenuous here - he fancies his sides chances of knocking up some hefty wins at the Abbey Stadium, especially following yesterday, and with Leigh Adams around he knows away humiliations will be few and far between. He doesn't fancy the Robins' chances of away wins, but sees bonus points aplenty. How do you work that out ? robins will get tank away from home can only see them getting 50% of bonus pts . True they won;t win away but to be honest i don't think many teams will anyhow . I think rosco in this case is doing it for the good of the sport rather than for himself or his team . |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2008 13:17:48 GMT
Great, all thats wrong with British speedway comes to the suface within a fortnight of the season starting - given that the rule book is only ever written in pencil (crayon) we can go back a rub a bit out because we dont like it
Anyone with any common sense was saying just what Rosco has now said but they didnt need the benefit of hindsight, most of us posted along these lines last November yet no one at the BSPA conference could see this as a problem, what are they on?
The rule book needs completely rewriting from scratch with the main aims of encouraging teams to ride as teams, rewarding teams that keep racing until the last heat and disincentives for clubs that prepare 'doctored' home tracks (in fairness this is more likely to be the provision of track time to away riders but you get the drift)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2008 21:59:40 GMT
The rule book needs completely rewriting from scratch with the main aims of encouraging teams to ride as teams, rewarding teams that keep racing until the last heat and disincentives for clubs that prepare 'doctored' home tracks (in fairness this is more likely to be the provision of track time to away riders but you get the drift) The bonus point was one of the causes of the doctored tracks, as has been said before Rye, KL and the Dingledrome all have massive home advantages. Win by 30 at home lose by 20 away and still get 3 points, that really kept meetings close didn't it? |
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Post by schumi on Mar 25, 2008 13:18:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2008 13:28:49 GMT
I'm always wary when text has a picture of someone smiling attached to it. Has someone just read it back to him before the snap was taken. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2008 13:30:16 GMT
The rule book needs completely rewriting from scratch with the main aims of encouraging teams to ride as teams, rewarding teams that keep racing until the last heat and disincentives for clubs that prepare 'doctored' home tracks (in fairness this is more likely to be the provision of track time to away riders but you get the drift) The bonus point was one of the causes of the doctored tracks, as has been said before Rye, KL and the Dingledrome all have massive home advantages. Win by 30 at home lose by 20 away and still get 3 points, that really kept meetings close didn't it? Agree that the aggregate point system did encourage teams to build home track advantage (either through track prep or by picking track specialists) but the new system really doesnt give enough incentive to teams to go to the places you mentioned and 'have a go' and I cant see how they have impacted on any of those teams you listed in terms of how they have put together their team this season Much better to have a graded 'bonus' points system that rewards teams that score consistently at away tracks (usually resulting in a more exciting meeting) than the all or nothing situation the conference gave us where teams can take a view after the first few heats as to whether to pull out all the stops or settle for a bit of average manipulation |
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