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Post by schumi on Sept 13, 2007 18:17:14 GMT
Is that it? I was waiting for you to stat me to death and argue the point until I lose the will to live. I can't be bothered. Although at what point what this supposed to have happened? Because McLaren were highly competitive this season right from day one. March, I believe. Can't get this press conference though. I assume it's not live?
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Post by Genghis on Sept 13, 2007 18:29:47 GMT
I can't be bothered. Although at what point what this supposed to have happened? Because McLaren were highly competitive this season right from day one. March, I believe. Can't get this press conference though. I assume it's not live? March? So how did McLaren have time to incorporate whatever they found into their car ready for the start of the season? It doesn't add up.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2007 19:36:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2007 19:38:51 GMT
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Post by schumi on Sept 13, 2007 19:45:34 GMT
I actually laughed at that. Curious, indeed. So, what's your vote jaybee?
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Post by donsking on Sept 13, 2007 20:07:57 GMT
Oh, that's OK then, the information was never used, but he made sure that everyone who is anyone knew he had it and so implicated them and the rest of the team in the whole sorry mess. Top marks for Mike
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2007 21:41:22 GMT
And we think speedway has problems.
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Post by schumi on Sept 13, 2007 21:42:07 GMT
These are the interesting quotes:
"The WMSC will receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren car and will take a decision at its December 2007 meeting as to what sanction, if any, will be imposed on the team for the 2008 season."
The full reasons for this decision will be issued on the 14th September 2007.
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Post by donsking on Sept 13, 2007 21:47:30 GMT
These are the interesting quotes: "The WMSC will receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren car and will take a decision at its December 2007 meeting as to what sanction, if any, will be imposed on the team for the 2008 season." The full reasons for this decision will be issued on the 14th September 2007. That's big of them, I mean what a generous offer, to make a report and deliver a verdict on a car that might not have turned a wheel before that meeting
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Post by schumi on Sept 14, 2007 13:42:28 GMT
And here's the reason for the expulsion but I think you might have to copy and paste the link: www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2728560,00.html
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Post by donsking on Sept 14, 2007 20:26:57 GMT
And here's the reason for the expulsion but I think you might have to copy and paste the link: www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2728560,00.html I find that quite shocking. McLaren go to some lengths to ask that any rulings are proved beyond doubt, which I wouldve thought was a perfectly reasonable request, but no, the WMSC are above all that nonsense and hand out the most punitive sentance in the history of the sport, on the basis that they think one scenario might be more likely than another one. This whole thing's a farce and just shows what depths the once pinnacle of motorsport has sunk to.
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Post by schumi on Sept 14, 2007 20:33:14 GMT
Did you read the whole thing? There are some very pertinent points in there.
But what I find most shocking, and no-one has yet mentioned it, is that Alonso and de la Rosa (especially the latter) are allowed to carry on in McLaren's employment. McLaren can claim they didn't know what was going on, I can believe Ron had nothing to do with it, but you'd think these two would have a few scruples between them - especially the world champion. To me it's completely devalued his status.
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Post by donsking on Sept 14, 2007 20:48:43 GMT
Did you read the whole thing? There are some very pertinent points in there. But what I find most shocking, and no-one has yet mentioned it, is that Alonso and de la Rosa (especially the latter) are allowed to carry on in McLaren's employment. McLaren can claim they didn't know what was going on, I can believe Ron had nothing to do with it, but you'd think these two would have a few scruples between them - especially the world champion. To me it's completely devalued his status. I did wade through it all, and I agree, there is some interesting stuff hidden in there, but I also think it's highly unlikely that Ron didn't know anything; as they point out several times in that report, almost nothing goes on in an F1 team without everyone knowing about it, particularly going up the chain of command and even in a company that has over 1000 employees. The thought that Ron Dennis had no idea why certain tactical decisions may have been made, for example, seems ridiculous to me. As for Alonso's status, I can't really comment on that because to me he doesn't really have any; he seemed to quietly creep up and take his first championship and has never really impressed me in any way. In the programme they produced on McLaren just before the season started, he stated quite clearly that he sees what he does as a job, and that's how I see him, workmanlike; to me, he's nothing special, he just happens to have won the last two championships. Also, with the money involved in the sport these days, I don't think there's much room for scruples, and I wouldn't expect Alonso or De La Rosa to be around next year.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2007 20:54:25 GMT
Did you read the whole thing? There are some very pertinent points in there. But what I find most shocking, and no-one has yet mentioned it, is that Alonso and de la Rosa (especially the latter) are allowed to carry on in McLaren's employment. McLaren can claim they didn't know what was going on, I can believe Ron had nothing to do with it, but you'd think these two would have a few scruples between them - especially the world champion. To me it's completely devalued his status. To an F1 driver it is all about winning the world championship. I doubt whether delaRosa will be a McLaren employee next season but as for Alonso... when he wins the title this year no doubt his release fee will rise accordingly to whoever wants him although where could Alonso go to be as competitive?
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Post by schumi on Sept 14, 2007 20:56:58 GMT
I also think it's highly unlikely that Ron didn't know anything; as they point out several times in that report, almost nothing goes on in an F1 team without everyone knowing about it, particularly going up the chain of command and even in a company that has over 1000 employees. True, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt this once as it's not that relevant. For those who don't want to read all of it I guess the main reason for the penalty, as I read it anyway was this: The WMSC does not have evidence that any complete Ferrari design was copied and subsequently wholly incorporated into the McLaren car as a result of Coughlan passing confidential from Stepney to McLaren. However, it is difficult to accept that the secret Ferrari information that was within Coughlan's knowledge never influenced his judgement in the performance of his duties. It is not necessary for McLaren to have copied a complete Ferrari design for it to have benefited from Coughlan's knowledge. For example, the secret Ferrari information cannot but have informed the views Coughlan expressed to others in the McLaren design department, for example regarding which design projects to prioritise or which research to pursue. The advantage gained may have been as subtle as Coughlan being in a position to suggest alternative ways of approaching different design challenges. And also the fact that when it was discovered by Coughlan's head it wasn't reported, nor did they report it when they knew without a doubt they had been told Ferrari's pit stop strategy. There's a meeting in December to see what will happen next year - whether there's to be a penalty or not. This will be as a direct result of investigations on the McLaren car to see if anything has been copied from the Ferrari. So I guess we'll find out the truth soon enough... Also Bernie has stated this isn't a one off and any other team found doing similar will face the same penalty. And that he argued to keep the drivers in the championship. Looks like Max isn't as influential as he thought he was.
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