|
Post by schumi on Dec 1, 2007 17:29:11 GMT
What on the crowds of Belle Vue, Ipswich and Eastbourne? Actually, their crowds started off quite healthy until Ipswich lost Loram and couldn't get a heatleader to replace him. Not sure about BV as I don't really follow them, and Eastbourne state their crowds are up only when Nicki is there. It's losing the top riders that's making the crowds dwindle. So thanks for proving my case.
|
|
|
Post by Genghis on Dec 1, 2007 17:34:16 GMT
That's why they're complaining. I think. I don't care about all that anyway, just give me Nicki back. How do you know that Nicki won't sign for Belle Vue?
|
|
|
Post by Genghis on Dec 1, 2007 17:36:28 GMT
What on the crowds of Belle Vue, Ipswich and Eastbourne? Actually, their crowds started off quite healthy until Ipswich lost Loram and couldn't get a heatleader to replace him. Not sure about BV as I don't really follow them, and Eastbourne state their crowds are up only when Nicki is there. It's losing the top riders that's making the crowds dwindle. So thanks for proving my case. Schumi - it's not the missing stars that cause crowds to dwindle, it's being thrashed at home every week by much stronger teams. How do you explain the situation at Oxford, where the crowds sprialled downwards for the EL and then went back up for the CL. So much for your "star" theory. 42.5 was much, much too high for last season, I don't think that's beyond any doubt. There were three leagues in one, and it wasn't much fun if you were in the bottom one.
|
|
|
Post by schumi on Dec 1, 2007 17:51:04 GMT
Schumi - it's not the missing stars that cause crowds to dwindle, it's being thrashed at home every week by much stronger teams. But is that not cause and effect? The big names weren't there, therefore they couldn't compete? It'll be the same this coming season - those with the top like riders will still be beating the lower teams. The owner?
|
|
|
Post by Genghis on Dec 1, 2007 17:55:37 GMT
Yes, but people wouldn't have come back unless they had entertaining speedway to watch. And it didn't matter that the side didn't contain any GP riders. I know you don't want to lose Nicki P, but you're clutching at straws, young Schumi.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2007 18:38:36 GMT
Actually, their crowds started off quite healthy until Ipswich lost Loram and couldn't get a heatleader to replace him. It's losing the top riders that's making the crowds dwindle. Lack of line-up consistency and lack of competitiveness are more the reasons. You can't expect to promote successfully where your No.1 is missing for half the matches, but that's the same whoever your No.1 is. I don't doubt crowds would drop in the short-term without the top riders, but if your costs are a third-to-half of what they are now, at least a team might start to pay its way. In the longer-run though, I really don't think fans will care who's riding, provided there's some consistency in the line-ups, and meetings are competitive. In fact, I didn't think Ipswich's crowds were so bad towards the end of the season, even without Loram. However, the Louis family has been promoting for years, so presumably know a thing or two about how to make the sport pay (unlike certain 'here today, gone tomorrow' promoters that could be mentioned).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2007 18:40:09 GMT
Schumi, looking back over our attendance figures for last season, our lowest gate was 950 when Poole came at the end of the season, and the highest was Good Friday when Lakeside came 4000. Mostly we had between 1200 and 1500 all season, even the Craven Shield.
Regarding the GP riders, well we saw, Jason Bjarne Scott Bomber Leigh and Hans last season, so will we miss them at Ipswich.....erm some of them, but the rest showed we weren't worthy of their time so no not really.
|
|
|
Post by donsking on Dec 1, 2007 19:28:44 GMT
It's probably just me, but I quite like the ideas we've had so far, in principle at least.
I think everyone agrees that the EL couldn't carry on as it was, so something had to be done and I think they've gone the right way.
By closing the gap between the PL and EL, promotion and relegation become a much more realistic proposition, and that might also mean SKY expand their coverage to both and give UK speedway more exposure (and more money).
I've always been a fan of P/R anyway, I think it makes the whole thing look more professional on a global level and will make it easier to understand from a layman's point of view; also, I've never agreed with the idea that a team can be in the EL 'just because we can', lots of folk have been outspoken on the subject of chequebook speedway teams, but the reality is we have it now, being in the EL is about the depth of your pockets and not much else.
I also feel it will promote the sport as being more team orientated, something it has sorely needed for years.
I think the loss of some of the top riders won't do any harm to the sport in this country, it might finally put a stop to the farce of constantly using guests and put some pressure on middle order riders to really make a difference, because at least one of them in every team will now be a heat leader.
On the whole, speedway needed something radical happening, and this could be it; it might not be, but I'd rather be optimistic and rip the piss out of it at the end of next year if it's a total failure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2007 20:14:51 GMT
For one moment, let's assume that all the problems arising from promotion and relegation in the early '90's, have been addressed.
Everyone seems to have overlooked the fact that the Elite League can't now expand beyond it's current size for the forseeable future. The only opening to the EL will be by winning the PL, which is the way it should be really, but they should have increased the number of teams initially.
There has been much talk over the last few days that Kings Lynn would move into the EL...........that hasn't happened........and if Lynn, with a successful team, good crowds and a promoter who actually sat on the "working party" (who we have to assume proposed this change), chooses for whatever reason not to include his own team in the top level when he has a golden opportunity to do so, we have to ask why?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2007 20:27:25 GMT
How can the limit be lower with one less team and not only that by 4pts ?oxford crowds were poor last year because horton ran the club shit if allen trump had run it no doubt it would have been good .
Same as reading shit ran club shit crowds just like newport in the pl shit run club shit crowds
|
|
|
Post by Genghis on Dec 1, 2007 20:34:47 GMT
How can the limit be lower with one less team and not only that by 4pts ?oxford crowds were poor last year because horton ran the club shit if allen trump had run it no doubt it would have been good . Same as reading shit ran club shit crowds just like newport in the pl shit run club shit crowds Orion - it's nowt to do with Reading or Oxford, who are no longer in the EL and wouldn't have had a vote. It's to do with the teams STILL in the Elite League. I would have thought that all bar two clubs lost money last year, and some substantial amounts. It couldn't continue. It was either a points limit of 38.85 or a league of seven and maybe even less teams.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2007 20:43:33 GMT
How can the limit be lower with one less team and not only that by 4pts ?oxford crowds were poor last year because horton ran the club shit if allen trump had run it no doubt it would have been good . Same as reading shit ran club shit crowds just like newport in the pl shit run club shit crowds Orion - it's nowt to do with Reading or Oxford, who are no longer in the EL and wouldn't have had a vote. It's to do with the teams STILL in the Elite League. I would have thought that all bar two clubs lost money last year, and some substantial amounts. It couldn't continue. It was either a points limit of 38.85 or a league of seven and maybe even less teams. Rob i was all for a lower limit but like most 38.95 is to low most of the clubs are going to charge the same prices for a much weaker product . How is that going bring fans and money in ?
|
|
|
Post by Genghis on Dec 1, 2007 20:55:50 GMT
Orion - it's nowt to do with Reading or Oxford, who are no longer in the EL and wouldn't have had a vote. It's to do with the teams STILL in the Elite League. I would have thought that all bar two clubs lost money last year, and some substantial amounts. It couldn't continue. It was either a points limit of 38.85 or a league of seven and maybe even less teams. Rob i was all for a lower limit but like most 38.95 is to low most of the clubs are going to charge the same prices for a much weaker product . How is that going bring fans and money in ? The real product is the racing. I don't think that will be affected, in fact if the teams are more level, then it will improve. Yes, it is a cost-cutting exercise. But when outgoings exceed income, eventually you have to cut you cloth accordingly or cease to exist. Speedway has to run as a business - maybe those promoters who were running speedway as an expensive plaything are running out of dosh.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2007 21:04:52 GMT
Rob that's the point i think the so called cost cutting will in fact lower the crowds to the point when it won't be cost cutting at all .
No good saving 5 grand a week if your loseing 6 grand because of it on the gate .
It looks like a lot of 9 and 10pt men v 4 and 5pt men can't see that being good racing .
|
|
|
Post by Genghis on Dec 1, 2007 21:13:46 GMT
Rob that's the point i think the so called cost cutting will in fact lower the crowds to the point when it won't be cost cutting at all . No good saving 5 grand a week if your loseing 6 grand because of it on the gate . It looks like a lot of 9 and 10pt men v 4 and 5pt men can't see that being good racing . I'm not sure what affect it will have on crowds. People usually find new heroes very quickly - look at Oxford, our new heroes last season were CL riders. And averages will change, the 4-5 point men won't stay on that figure. It's actually an ideal opportunity to increase the number of British riders in the EL, by increasing their average reduction from 2.5% to say 10% or even 20%. Ultimately, the more British riders in the team, the less money that needs to go on airfares, etc, and that could go a long way into making speedway financially viable.
|
|