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Post by Genghis on Jun 12, 2009 15:03:21 GMT
What was the Black Sox scandal? It was an awful song called Ride On Time.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 17:47:17 GMT
The man responsible for restoring faith in Baseball after the Black Sox scandal by kicking out anyone remotely involved in any sort of misdemeanour, and ensuring the integrity of the game. For the benefit of Snyper and others, the Black Sox scandal was when the Chicago White Sox took money to throw the 1919 Baseball World Series. One result of this was that the US Federal Government forced professional baseball clubs to remove themselves from the day-to-day administration of the sport, and appoint an independent commissioner - the first of whom was Kenesaw Mountain Landis who largely established the administration model for all North American professional sports leagues. Interesting that baseball realised the need for an independent commissioner in 1920 - something that the BSPA still hasn't worked out nearly 90 years later.  |
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Post by Genghis on Jun 12, 2009 17:49:59 GMT
Couldn't Sub come up with a slightly more up-to-date (and revelant to the 21st century) example? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 18:02:59 GMT
The man responsible for restoring faith in Baseball after the Black Sox scandal by kicking out anyone remotely involved in any sort of misdemeanour, and ensuring the integrity of the game. For the benefit of Snyper and others, the Black Sox scandal was when the Chicago White Sox took money to throw the 1919 Baseball World Series. One result of this was that the US Federal Government forced professional baseball clubs to remove themselves from the day-to-day administration of the sport, and appoint an independent commissioner - the first of whom was Kenesaw Mountain Landis who largely established the administration model for all North American professional sports leagues. Interesting that baseball realised the need for an independent commissioner in 1920 - something that the BSPA still hasn't worked out nearly 90 years later. The big difference with British speedway and ultimately its downfall is that no club appears to be run with a long term plan, teams are 'bailed out' by semi affluent benefactors who stick around until their bored or run out of money at which point the relevant club is back in the mire. If Poole and its a VERY BIG IF are guilty of average manipulation, i can only see it being done in an attempt to keep its level of support happy, at the end of the day Poole speedway is a business and those running the club need to take whatever steps they need in order to survive. Even in sports such as the American Football where steps are taken to 'even up the playing field' there are big clubs and smaller clubs, its the way sport is, its all about winners and losers and say what you like about old Shovvy and his band of Pirates, but they want, demand and expect success, so ultimately they, along with Coventry are the sports elite clubs and the rest should not be allowed to hold them back. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 18:04:27 GMT
Couldn't Sub come up with a slightly more up-to-date (and revelant to the 21st century) example? The example of early-20th century professional baseball is very much relevant to modern day speedway - not least with respect to the owner self-interest and multiple competing leagues. |
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Post by schumi on Jun 12, 2009 18:07:27 GMT
Couldn't Sub come up with a slightly more up-to-date (and revelant to the 21st century) example? I haven't seen the Star, so I'm only assuming it's Landis you're talking about. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 18:07:46 GMT
The big difference with British speedway and ultimately its downfall is that no club appears to be run with a long term plan, teams are 'bailed out' by semi affluent benefactors who stick around until their bored or run out of money at which point the relevant club is back in the mire. It's little different to how professional baseball was in its early days. The difference is that it (and later other professional North American sports) realised the need to clean up its act early on. |
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Post by Genghis on Jun 12, 2009 18:11:49 GMT
Couldn't Sub come up with a slightly more up-to-date (and revelant to the 21st century) example? The example of early-20th century professional baseball is very much relevant to modern day speedway - not least with respect to the owner self-interest and multiple competing leagues. Wibblemuis, yes but it's a completely different world to 1920, when there was very little travel, no computers, restricted communication, etc. It could be argued that a single dictator could work then but not now. Personally I don't want to see a single Tsar in charge, but rather an independent body of 5/7 people, persuading a couple of refs to retire to stand on it, join them up with a couple of former well-respected promoters, then also bring in a couple of people with no previous connection with the sport. |
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Post by Genghis on Jun 12, 2009 18:13:18 GMT
Couldn't Sub come up with a slightly more up-to-date (and revelant to the 21st century) example? I haven't seen the Star, so I'm only assuming it's Landis you're talking about. Yes, he was the chap mentioned. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 18:22:41 GMT
It could be argued that a single dictator could work then but not now. The original plan was for an independent commission of several people, but Landis insisted on being sole commissioner as a condition of taking the job. Of course, professional baseball had the individual league presidents as well. I wouldn't be particularly opposed to a 3-5 person commission for speedway, although I don't believe committees are generally more effective. A sole commissioner can make quicker decisions, and neither do I think they'd last very long if they made too many wrong choices. Sole commissioners have worked perfectly well for baseball and the NFL, and speedway is a smaller sport. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 18:26:18 GMT
The big difference with British speedway and ultimately its downfall is that no club appears to be run with a long term plan, teams are 'bailed out' by semi affluent benefactors who stick around until their bored or run out of money at which point the relevant club is back in the mire. It's little different to how professional baseball was in its early days. The difference is that it (and later other professional North American sports) realised the need to clean up its act early on. But in speedway its not only the clubs that can benefit from average manuipulation, it also affects the riders on an individual basis, a few months ago we were led to believe that Jesper B Moonrock was hurling himself off his machine in an attempt to personally lower his average, no riding through the tapes or feigning bike problems for psycho Moonlanding, he was happy to risk serious injury to get an average he deemed appropriate. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 18:30:45 GMT
But in speedway its not only the clubs that can benefit from average manuipulation Average manipulation is just the embodiment of the crap shortsighted way in which the sport is generally run. There are ways to negate it, and you could indeed devise a much better way to operate the points limit in the first place. Nevertheless, it's just one of several things that need fixing, and that's never going to happen whilst the monkeys are running the circus.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 18:37:08 GMT
But in speedway its not only the clubs that can benefit from average manuipulation Average manipulation is just the embodiment of the crap shortsighted way in which the sport is generally run. There are ways to negate it, and you could indeed devise a much better way to operate the points limit in the first place. Nevertheless, it's just one of several things that need fixing, and that's never going to happen whilst the monkeys are running the circus. I totally agree, i would have thought British speedway being run by an independent body and Emil Sajfutdinov being brilliant are the only two things everyone was in agreement with. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 19:54:32 GMT
AGREED BUT....
Further to the Speedway Star comment by Philip Rising in your June 6 edition, I would, on the whole, agree with the sentiments.
However, the major problem may not necessarily be the punitive effect of the points limit and subsequent re-construction of successful teams. As I see it, the major problem these last two seasons has been the ridiculous raising of the points limit for the Elite League after the first set of averages have been produced.
I noted from the ACU Speedway Regulations that this season, a supplementary regulation (sr) was required before the points limit in the Elite League was rasied. No doubt promotions from certain clubs lobbied for this SR to be issued and the BSPA management committee meekly compiled. They did a great disservice to the integrity of the sport when they did.
Without the SR, it is unlikely that the problems currently being witnessed would have come to pass.
However, they did come to pass and ultimately I feel the BSPA management committee actually handled the Poole and Coventry cases sensibly. Had Poole and Coventry been allowed their initial redeclared line-ups to pass, it would not have been fair on the other seven teams.
The decision to review the averages of riders who had not completed the required 12 meetings was sensible and should become the convention.
Whilst the suggestion of setting the points limit at that achieved by the league champions is an admirable vision, it is probably hopelessly unworkable in practise.
And I think deep down Mr.Rising would acknowledge that (and in 2007 it would surely have been unfair on Swindon, where the combined averages of the team were higher than that of champions Coventry.)
The likes of Ipswich, Belle Vue and Eastbourne would hardly have been able to compete - they were unable to compete in 2007, as things stood. So, the Elite League would hardly be viable under Mr.Rising's proposal.
British speedway has been subject to the tyranny of average for as long as I can remember, The sport is dictated by a set of figures subject to all manner of subterfuge and manipulation, starting with the nonsense that is assessment of foreign newcomers.
However, a possible compromise would be to institute an average reduction for riders remaining with a club. A 'sliding scale' could be introduced with a starting reduction of 1.5 per cent for a second year and rising to a maximum of 5 per cent or 7.5 per cent after five years.
Mr. Rising speaks of clubs being encouraged to ''build sides''. That's all very well and good, but personally I think clubs need to be mandated to encourage young British riders. The Poles do this very successfully.
Perhaps sweeping away the outdated and probabky illegal system of 'assets' and putting the 'transfer kitty' into youth development would be an idea?
Mr. Rising speaks of the ''spirit of the rules'' being broken, but as I see it, speedway's rules are designed to encourage what he might call ''sharp practise''. Can the ''spirit of the rules'' really be broken if they have no spirit to begin with?
Finally, the Speedway Control Bureau is a discredited body and should be swept away and replaced, ideally with a character like Kenesaw Mountain Landis, the man who brought respectability to major league baseball after the 'Black Sox' scandal. However, the BSPA is unlikely to ever agree to such a move. They will just carry on, hoping that the fuss will subside and things can return to normal.
D.A. Farrar (Subedei, currently in exile from the BSF, but serene in this time of vindication), Via e-mail.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 19:56:54 GMT
Couldn't Sub come up with a slightly more up-to-date (and revelant to the 21st century) example? I think the point made was that it's shows how outdated Speedway is. It's one of the only sports in the country where the decisions are made in reality by the clubs themselves. At centre of it all is an independent bloke...who doesn't seem to make many decisions but likes to keep his name involved. |
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