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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2007 21:36:16 GMT
Judge for yourselves which you consider to be hard riding in the 1st turn and which is blatent foul riding, spooky that Castagna was in both heats with Tommy and Hans. By the way i disliked Knudsen intensely at the time, but respect to a classy rider. Comparisons with Adams are closer than with Bjarne but Knudsen was a harder rider than Adams. uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zmk6VlUZIguk.youtube.com/watch?v=xrb0k_JvJrg |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2007 22:05:13 GMT
Firstly, thanks for the brilliant links ctylr007!!!
Well here's my take:-
Clip One - the ref seemed to call it right, but had to laugh at Lanning's gaff about Hans needing a tractor when he was laying on the track. Even Millard would be hard pressed to equal that!! ;D
Clip Two - Well what can you say? I am one of Hans Nielsen's biggest fans, but how he got away with that fuck knows!!! He clearly took Tommy K out (deliberate or not, who knows?) and how the referee made that decision totally baffles me. Even Suzanne looked embarrassed by it!!!
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Post by admin on Aug 21, 2007 22:10:50 GMT
It's more the re-run, where Tommy deliberately pushed Hans wide to drop Hans from second to fourth, even though it meant he dropped from first to second in the process. Tommy wasn't riding the track at that point - SOMEONE (I wonder who!) had told him to bugger Hans up. And thanks to the clips above, we can see that Knudsen didn't go from first to second in the process of the 1st-2nd turns of the re-run - it took Cook a couple of laps to execute a wonderful overtake of Knudsen. True, Knudsen went wide to block Nielsen, which is understandable, since Nielsen would be seen as the chief threat to a Knudsen win in that race. As to 1986, I don't see how anyone could argue that the referee didn't get it wrong - Nielsen lost control and clattered into Knudsen. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2007 22:24:25 GMT
I was going to point out that little error on the description of the 85 incident before I even saw that the videos had been included further on.
Despite what was said earlier, I think it's harsh to suggest that Tommy wasn't riding the track. At that stage in the meeting it was essential to be right out wide to get maximum grip. Tommy actually got passed because he stayed too low on the track lter in the race.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he wouldn't have been upset to have stuffed up Hans, but I think he would have been out fairly close to that line even if he hadn't had Hans outside him.
As for 86....No question the ref screwed up.
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Post by Genghis on Aug 22, 2007 12:16:59 GMT
It's more the re-run, where Tommy deliberately pushed Hans wide to drop Hans from second to fourth, even though it meant he dropped from first to second in the process. Tommy wasn't riding the track at that point - SOMEONE (I wonder who!) had told him to bugger Hans up. And thanks to the clips above, we can see that Knudsen didn't go from first to second in the process of the 1st-2nd turns of the re-run - it took Cook a couple of laps to execute a wonderful overtake of Knudsen. True, Knudsen went wide to block Nielsen, which is understandable, since Nielsen would be seen as the chief threat to a Knudsen win in that race. As to 1986, I don't see how anyone could argue that the referee didn't get it wrong - Nielsen lost control and clattered into Knudsen. Sub, You'll have to excuse the inacccuracy... the 1985 final isn't one I've got on video. But from recall, Tommy did go very wide on that bend, watch a couple fo the other races and it wasn't the natural racing line. There was a definite school of thought that Knudsen had pushed Nielsen wide at the golem Olsen's request. Jens Rasmussen certainly thought so. Jens was fiercely loyal to his fellow Oxford Dane, and was aggrieved by the way he considered the other Danes had ganged up against Hans at Bradford. So when Erik came down to Oxford later in 1985, Jens decided to give him a hard race. Unfortunately, he overdid it somewhat, Gundersen came off and Rambo inadvertantly rode over his head! Erik withdrew from the rest of the meeting, but was OK apart from being a bit shaken up!! Contrary, to belief, there was just as much aggro between the 80s set of Danes as the current ones, it just wasn't between Hans and Erik who treated each other with the upmost respect. Knudsen was always knocking Rasmussen off (although Jens could dish it out as well as taking it - he was a hard man!), and also always rode Hans extremely hard. Although different angles of the 1986 World Final incident show a different story (much like Penhall/Carter and indeed Crump/Iversen!) , I think the general concensus around Oxford at the time is that whoever was at fault, Knudsen had got his comuppance at last. He could be a dirty bastard, and it proved to be his undoing, with all those injuries. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 19:40:19 GMT
As i remember it Gundersen was more ruthless than Hans, and had him up the fence in the Midland riders final a few times, you got the impression he would not think twice at riding Nielsen way wide to win. Not dirty but just really hard, until Nielsen realised he had to dish it back to Erik and the rest he was a loser at the very highest level , World Final, BLRC etc etc.
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Post by Genghis on Aug 22, 2007 20:25:21 GMT
As i remember it Gundersen was more ruthless than Hans, and had him up the fence in the Midland riders final a few times, you got the impression he would not think twice at riding Nielsen way wide to win. Not dirty but just really hard, until Nielsen realised he had to dish it back to Erik and the rest he was a loser at the very highest level , World Final, BLRC etc etc. I don't think Mauger taught Nielsen that much (after all, Hans was already World No. 2 and the most consistent rider since Mauger), but I think Hans became much more ruthless after his association with Ivan. Hans rode hard at times before that, such as the aforementioned Golden Helmet match-race against Knudsen in 1985. But from 1986 Nielsen became far more aggressive in World Championship events. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2007 20:31:38 GMT
As i remember it Gundersen was more ruthless than Hans, and had him up the fence in the Midland riders final a few times, you got the impression he would not think twice at riding Nielsen way wide to win. Not dirty but just really hard, until Nielsen realised he had to dish it back to Erik and the rest he was a loser at the very highest level , World Final, BLRC etc etc. I don't think Mauger taught Nielsen that much (after all, Hans was already World No. 2 and the most consistent rider since Mauger), but I think Hans became much more ruthless after his association with Ivan. Hans rode hard at times before that, such as the aforementioned Golden Helmet match-race against Knudsen in 1985. But from 1986 Nielsen became far more aggressive in World Championship events. Exactly he needed to get ruthless or forever be the nearly man, and Ivan instilled that killer instinct to move up to the top of the rostrum. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2007 8:35:31 GMT
Contrary, to belief, there was just as much aggro between the 80s set of Danes as the current ones, it just wasn't between Hans and Erik who treated each other with the upmost respect. I think the aggro between Erik and Hans was mostly to do with the press at the time wrongly attributing quotes to one or the other of them. As you say I don't think it was ever personal but they were the 2 outstanding individuals for some time in the mid-late 80's and knew if they finished above the other in a World Final they wouldn't be too far off the top of the rostrum. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2007 23:01:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2007 11:12:13 GMT
Nice to see some races from the Wood, and look at that crowd at Cov in 82!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2007 21:17:51 GMT
Aw they cut out Knudsens protest of Pulling a wheelie through the tapes! Genghis to call Knudsen a dirty bastard is unbelievable! and then to say he got his comeuppance with all his injuries.....
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Post by Genghis on Sept 10, 2007 21:20:32 GMT
Aw they cut out Knudsens protest of Pulling a wheelie through the tapes! Genghis to call Knudsen a dirty bastard is unbelievable! and then to say he got his comeuppance with all his injuries..... Serge - let's face it, he was hardly "Saint Tommy"  ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2007 21:58:34 GMT
Aw they cut out Knudsens protest of Pulling a wheelie through the tapes! Genghis to call Knudsen a dirty bastard is unbelievable! and then to say he got his comeuppance with all his injuries..... Serge - let's face it, he was hardly "Saint Tommy" ;D ;D Unlike the 'whiter than white' Hans!!  ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2007 22:40:45 GMT
I only got into speedway seriously in 1987 but do remember the Danes, Knudsen, Nielsen, Gundersen etc Knudsen to me was really classy and with Tatum formed a potent spearhead for the Bees. I rated him highly as he always seemed to score double figures at Lynn, then again so did everyone else back then  |
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;D ;D
;D